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Ayn Rand versus conservatives

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 5 months ago to Philosophy
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Since so much of Galt's Gulch Online content has become conservative headline aggregation posting and commentary over the last several months, let's discuss what Ayn Rand thought of conservatives and conservativism. She put forth quite a bit of commentary on the subject, particularly after Atlas Shrugged came out.

To put it bluntly, she considered conservatives as big a danger to this country as she did liberals/progressives, considering both leading the country down a path towards statism, socialism, anti-capitalism, and most importantly-anti-freedom. Following is just one quote, there are a number:

“Conservatives”

Objectivists are not “conservatives.” We are radicals for capitalism; we are fighting for that philosophical base which capitalism did not have and without which it was doomed to perish . . .

Politics is based on three other philosophical disciplines: metaphysics, epistemology and ethics—on a theory of man’s nature and of man’s relationship to existence. It is only on such a base that one can formulate a consistent political theory and achieve it in practice. When, however, men attempt to rush into politics without such a base, the result is that embarrassing conglomeration of impotence, futility, inconsistency and superficiality which is loosely designated today as “conservatism.” . . .

Today’s culture is dominated by the philosophy of mysticism (irrationalism)—altruism—collectivism, the base from which only statism can be derived; the statists (of any brand: communist, fascist or welfare) are merely cashing in on it—while the “conservatives” are scurrying to ride on the enemy’s premises and, somehow, to achieve political freedom by stealth. It can’t be done.

The Objectivist Newsletter

“Choose Your Issues,”
The Objectivist Newsletter, Jan, 1962, 1

So What Do You Think Conservatives


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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Aristotle laid out many of the principles of deductive logic (how many were original to him I don't think anyone knows). However, the ancient greeks never worked out how induction works, although Aristotle certainly understood some of the ideas behind the scientific method which he used in his biology.

    The enlightenment worked on the epistemology of reason and made some good progress, but ultimately failed to solve some problems that were exploited by David Hume and Kant. Many people are still working on the epistemology of reason, including David Kelley who wrote the book Evidence of the Senses. Like the sciences of physics, chemistry, etc. it is likely that there will always more to be learned about reason and how it works.
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  • Posted by PURB 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Allowed by whom? What an unusual participle--and why here in a discussion on conservatism? I have a batch of old "conservative" pamphlets from the 1960's and earlier. Few mention belief in God as a defining feature, let alone the defining feature, of conservatism.
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  • Posted by mshupe 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Can you briefly explain the irrational foundations of the Austrian School? I've read the Road to Serfdom and found problems with some of Hayek's assertions about government, and would like to read more Mises. I understand the disconnect with Adam Smith's ideas about profit. What am I missing? Thanks.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes the portray of Spock as rational is exactly what a conservative or a liberal would do But this does not make is so.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Much of the libertarian movement is based on the philosophical foundations as the conservatives. For instance, both claim Hayek with good reason and Hayek was anti-reason.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It does not force in the sense of physical force, but the statement that god exists is totally incompatible with reason and therefore objectivism.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 5 months ago
    Zen,
    The Conservative movement (philosophically) traces its roots to David Hume and Edmund Burke. David Hume is best known for his attack on causation, induction, and his "is ought" attack on ethics. Burke also attacked reason, because he thought the French Revolution was the logical result of unrestrained reason. F.A. Hayek picked up on the idea of Hume and Burke and created his idea of cultural evolution, which is also an attack on reason. The modern day conservative movement includes Austrian Economics, many libertarians, and of course the religious right. Conservativism is fundamentally an attack on reason, which is why it attracts so many religious people. Objectivism and Conservativism are fundamentally incompatible (something I have shown by exposing the irrational foundations of Austrian Economics) and any nominal agreement that both want a smaller government is coincidental.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That was educational.
    I'm still chewing on "the argument from self-esteem" as the best way to defend capitalism (at the end of the video).
    I'm also going to remember the term, "semantic pretzels."
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 5 months ago
    I consider myself not conservative, not libertarian, and not Objectivist, and surely not liberal, except perhaps in the Jeffersonian sense. I respect those who are in this forum, though sometimes I have disagreements with their points of view.

    Perhaps Rand's most important point was the importance of living a life that is free of contradiction, and on that I agree with everyone in here.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 5 months ago
    Conservative: One who wants to conserve his life, liberty and property and never initiate force or fraud.

    Liberal: One who wants to be liberal with others' life, liberty and property by initiating force and fraud, exacted by the state.
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  • Posted by mshupe 9 years, 5 months ago
    I wonder what Rand would say if Atlas Shrugged had been enthusiastically embraced by conservative thought leaders like William Buckley and Whitaker Chambers instead of the bashing they delivered.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    True freedom has nothing to do with force.
    Old dino follows his own path.
    You get to decide what is yours in a free society.
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  • Posted by dwlievert 9 years, 5 months ago
    Your last sentence sums up the inescapable conclusion that Rand's epistemological rigor demonstrates. However, while it indeed cannot be done, can it not be SLOWED?

    I refer you to an article that I today posted under both "Philosophy" and "Politics," titled, "LEADING" WITH GOD.

    Dave
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  • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for posting. I've not seen it before and it's well worth the time to watch. It's still as true today as it was back then.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 5 months ago
    Thank you. I am an Objectivist. But, I'm not a statist. I have railed before here, and elsewhere, on how neocons are statists and that I can't be a part of it.

    If you are really an Objectivist you are in a small minority group...
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  • Posted by james464 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But wasn't reason around before Aristotle? He didn't define reason did he?
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  • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 5 months ago
    The way I see it, a conservative's general claim is fiscally responsible and socially progressive. I believe it's not possible to be fiscally conservative while supporting social programs because those programs cost money and it lead to cronyism. Therefore I believe a conservative is not Objectivist nor capitalist in nature. Of course only my thoughts.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    in the end it's an individual choice when you punch, press, mark, push or whatever your ballot. It used to be a secret ballot but apparently not any more.
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  • Posted by james464 9 years, 5 months ago
    Instead of using Ayn Rand's reasoning, shouldn't we reason for ourselves? Isn't that what she taught? So the question really is, "What came first, reason or Ayn Rand?"
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  • Posted by james464 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Are we allowed to reason God exists? If I conclude He does, then does Objectivism force me to deny it?
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  • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    AJ; I certainly concur that you have consistently and forthrightly maintained your views, and you are admirably involved in many of the more Objectivist discussions than some others, but you are straightforward about your beliefs. But you also don't seem to be as involved in purely conservative 'post swamping' as some. Your commentary is generally well received and I think even appreciated by some of us. You're not a 'wilting daisy' and you seem to be well versed in Objectivism.

    I've seen quite a few episodes in which Kirk has left the bridge to Spock and in which he saved the ship and Kirk. I think I remember one in which, at least a partial explanation of why he wasn't a Captain; having something to do with him not as able as Kirk in thinking out of the box and often unwilling to challenge the odds as Kirk consistently did.
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