It seems to me people don't see clearly what these philosophies/economies really are. Socialism and communism are not what we were taught in high school. Both of them are schemes that have the purpose of creating and keeping the ruling class above and in charge of the working class. The productivity of a Nation is aimed at the few on top. It is sold to the masses as "the only way" for all to make it through this troubled time. Or, "the only way" for each to have their fair share. The sales pitch is in no way related to the reality. In Russia doe the people live in the same fashion and manner as Putin? Will they, or can they ever reach the ruling class? The sales pitch on "Social Justice" is similar to selling National health care in that, health care really has little to do with it. Changing the money flow of the Nation is the underlying reality.

In both socialism and communism there is no middle class and little innovation. Look at Cuba for a moment. I would guess the poor have a 57 Ford while the middle class have a 58 Chevy. This is because there is no innovation. If you draw the line finely enough there maybe a group of people that earn slightly more. Even at that, none of these people will rise to the level of "Ruling Class".

In Capitalism, the poor have the chance and incentive to rise above their beginnings and become the Chairman or President of a company. It is so vibrant they can either do this the Bill Gates way and create their own company and pathway, or they can do it the Lee Iaccoca way, making vertical moves between companies. Does everybody move up? No. It is for the individual to decide what they will do and how hard they will work. Even then many are failures. The great lesson in failure is what not to do next time. Then start over and build a better business model. In Socialism or Communism there is no "next time". After a few generations there is no first time.

It is the individualism in capitalism that sideswipes Rand's philosophy. Without the open architecture of capitalism, the objectivist cannot exist. And so, to pose an objectivist in a socialist or communist society is impossible. They will be culled by the government.

One other point I notice when the academics are discussing the socialist utopia is this. Why is it that AS is no longer fiction? Everyday in this utopia we live in I see the news where the government has fixed the problem with another new rule. More and more it's something I read about in AS.

And so many so-called feminists don't get that part of socialism, at all. Amazes me.

Its good to read what the other side is thinking, if ya wanna call it that. But too much can damage ya. After a dose of non-logical leftist drivel, I return to the Gulch to cleanse my circuits. It works for me.

Knew a woman like the one you mentioned in your post. Tried to go to work and couldn't hack it. Didn't have the ability, or desire, to take instruction and get it done. Didn't understand she was an employee, not the Queen Bee, at her workplace. Thankfully, a few of her kids saw the light and didn't want to live as they had been raised.

I seem to recall that the founders, or whatever, of the socialist philosophy were failures in their lives. So I can see how the jealousy angle plays into coming up with this idea of "from each...to each", without having to worry about working hard to achieve what they may want. Its like the teenager, or later, attitude of "you owe me cuz I breath". Could it be angst which fuels the socialist ideas? Just thinkng.

And, the only way they can continue, if it all, is through force of government via taxes or actual military threat for compliance.

Kudos, Abaco. I hire a guy to take care of my lawn. He works on his own and limits the number of lawns he does by choosing his customers carefully. Avoids all kinds of taxes and such, according to him. Does well and keeps busy year round. It can be done. This is all this guy wants, for now, and it suits him just fine. From talking with him, he doesn't want the hassle of dealing with employees and the added nonsense of government rules, etc.

I started a new business a couple years ago complying with two of my own rules: "In California don't hire anybody and don't make anything." I'm doing fine and there is zero "hierarchy".

Communism, after reading "The Stones Cry Out", makes me almost violent. Everybody should read that book.

After reading the posts for the Socialist/Communist/Marxist/Anarchists I think I have Brain Damage !!!

The reason Marxists always attack capitalism is that they cannot provide one example of a successful socialist state. The 20th century provides a wide range of failures i.e. USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, California etc. All their economies are dead or dying as well they must.

What a load!!

Thanks for that. I've just started to get a handle on some of these concepts. Last week I started reading Ayn Rand's "The New Left - The Anti-Industrial Revolution". The first chapter is her analysis of the so called "student rebellion" at Berkeley in 1964. Fascinating reading.

"Capitalism requires hierarchy. Every capitalist organization has owners and managers who are necessarily given more power and compensation over a larger number of laborers."-- Socialist on Reddit

How many people or corporations have never had a quarter in which they earn less than the lowest-paid employee? How many have never had a quarter in which they actually lost money?

The socialist poster is just factually wrong.

I guess he thinks if you mow grass for money, it's not capitalism. If you do it really well, though, and find so many customers that you start buying equipment, finding jobs for others who want work, providing training, setting up billing, and so; at that point you're a hierarchal master with "more power" than the people you're finding the jobs for. It doesn't matter to the socialist that all these people are working of their own free will and they can/should/will leave you immediately if someone else finds a better way to serve customers with their labor and can pay them better. I guess that person's a real hierarchal master. This whole thing is a crock.

I do not see how we can help the poster. As a former lifeguard, they are all drowning and if we swim over to save them, in their ignorant panic they can push us under. seriously, they are scoring everyone's comments so the down vote will go as you can imagine.
My favorite comment: "get him a copy of Grapes of Wrath quick!"
There was never a more dehumanizing book written with beautiful prose that I can think of. well, wait a minute, I can think of more...
Yes, DO read Grapes of Wrath-and in the final scenes-tell us how you viewed the pressure on the young mother who lost her child to offer up her breast to the starving, dying old man whom she had never met before. I always love it when the women are asked to give up shit first in socialism....like their femininity for one...

We should send that poster here to see the other side of that argument. All he is getting is one sided jarble. If he really wants to define his own ideas about the message of Atlas Shrugged, then he needs to see an objectivists discussion about that same topic. Then he can make a more rational decision for himself and judge with his own mind about the effects and outcomes of socialism.