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Open Carry vs. Racism

Posted by nsnelson 9 years, 4 months ago to Legislation
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I've been contemplating a parallel between some new gun debates and Rand's essay on Racism. Texas passed new legislation to allow licensed open carry of handguns. For years now, I have been licensed to carry concealed wherever permitted. I do not intend to open carry, but I support the liberty to choose whether one carries concealed, openly, or not at all. But the ignorance surrounding this new legislation is astounding. The legislators who passed it displayed irrationality and fear-mongering (I watched them debate the bill). The opponents and local media are increasing the spread of ignorance and fear. But I'm particularly disappointed with average people who supported the legislation.

I have been a member of two Facebook groups: Open Carry Texas, and Texas Carry. Both made amazing strides in getting this legislation passed, even overcoming opposition by the NRA. But now roughly half of the group members are upset that so many local stores (e.g., grocery stores) are posting signs legally prohibiting open carry on their premises. Many open carry supporters are now saying this is a violation of their second amendment rights, and now they want to pursue legislation that requires these stores to allow open carry.

Never mind that the 2A is a limit on the Government, not on private businesses. Never mind that private property rights are the foundation of liberty, and even of our right of self-defense (and the tools of self-defense). Some of these people are making the comparison between the bakers (etc.) who have been sued for refusing certain products to certain homosexual events, saying that stores should not be allowed to discriminate against those who want to exercise their second amendment rights. That's right: they want to make open carriers a protected class.

The other half of the group members (myself included) seem to recognize the importance of private property rights. But it is Facebook, the land of misinformation, of not addressing arguments, of anonymous name-calling, and of never convincing anyone. It's just frustrating to watch, and I needed to share this with people who understand.

Anyway, it reminded me of Rand's treatment of racism. What she said very aptly applies to this debate: some on the pro-gun side started by appealing to individual rights in order to be allowed to open carry, now they want to violate the rights of private business owners.

“One of the worst contradictions, in this context, is the stand of many so-called ‘conservatives’ (not confined exclusively to the South) who claim to be defenders of freedom, of capitalism, of property rights, of the Constitution, yet who advocate racism at the same time. They do not seem to possess enough concern with principles to realize that they are cutting the ground from under their own feet. Men who deny individual rights cannot claim, defend or uphold any rights whatsoever.”

https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...


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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yeah, there's also that.
    My pistol is kept in a pocket holster that can be easily mistaken for a wallet.
    That I carry in my right front pocket where I used to carry my wallet.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm psychologically more comfortable with a concealed weapon than ogled from all around for being the only person in a room full of people with a pistol on my hip.
    There's that comfort factor too.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Call me a fool" - OK, as you asked. I suggest that you take a good look at the reasons for legitimate lethal force and then ask yourself again how well will non-lethal substitute work?
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 3 months ago
    One would like to have a"clean" fight, using only logic and logical debates... However, that is not the world we live in. If the Progressives/Socialists made a bakery an example of discrimination, I think we should use the same weapon back at them, even if we disagree with the premises of that case (property rights). Think of it as using your Jedi light saber to deflect and send back to the attacker whatever crap they've shot at you.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am not a psychologist; however, wouldn't it make sense for a mugger or would be bank robber to postpone his act or choose a different target than taking a chance with an open carry individual? (who may have a backup weapon).
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 3 months ago
    I think that the problem is that some people just
    go with their emotions rather than thought. I be-
    lieve in an individual's right to carry a gun, con-
    cealed or not--but not on another's property, if the
    owner forbids it. But to believe this requires an
    understanding of the concept of individual
    rights
    , not simply an emotional attachment to
    something, such as a gun. (I think that this
    sometimes manifests itself in certain Southern-
    ers' sentimental attachment to the Confederate
    flag; some of these people may not even really
    have anything against black people, they just
    want their flag, and try to maintain that that
    war wasn't about slavery, etc.)
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We have the right to pursue happiness only. Finding it is quite another matter... ;)
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Fear is the result of bad information. Ask anyone of the Founding Fathers if they were scared by a gun and they would have laughed at the absurdity of such a question.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is fun. I wish I had your jolly relationship with numbers. It was my lack of comfort with numbers that inclined me towards a bio degree - I love science, but find numbers a bit baffling. (I memorized well enough to pass Calculus; I had a prof who was an incredible teacher, so I do actually understand some of the basis for Calculus, but I can't work with it worth a darn.)

    Jan
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  • Posted by Steven-Wells 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The clothing department purchase was my only personal interaction with that nutcase, though I had heard his short repertoire of non-stop raving many times as he wandered around the store.
    I remember his purchase amount because it was $3.59, the magic change number. (New Jersey did not have sales tax on clothing.) The change for that amount is one of each of the commonly circulating money, which excludes the (then) very rarely seen 50¢ coin and $2 bill. Change from $4 is one each of a penny, nickel, dime, and quarter. Add one of each next bill up for the next higher denomination:
    $4 gets change as 1¢ + 5¢ +10¢ +25¢
    $5 gets change as 1¢ + 5¢ +10¢ +25¢ +$1
    $10 gets change as 1¢ + 5¢ +10¢ +25¢ +$1 +$5
    $20 gets change as 1¢ + 5¢ +10¢ +25¢ +$1 +$5 +$10
    Can you guess that I have a long history of playing with numbers? Back then, I could spit out more than 100 decimal places of pi with no effort. (Seems that I still can!)

    I keep an envelope in a dresser drawer containing $144.19 as a special set that I call Obama Money, because it's Change you can't believe in.
    Bills = 1×$50 + 4×$20 + 1×$5 + 4×$2 and Coins = 1×50¢ + 1×25¢ + 4×10¢ + 4×1¢.
    That set can't make even change of any currently circulating American coin or bill.
    Need change to buy a snack from a machine? Don't expect it from the Obama Money.
    No even change for any of a nickel, dime, quarter, half, Dollar, Two, Five, Ten, Twenty, Fifty, or Hundred.
    I don't include larger bills because nothing above a $100 circulates any more. (Long ago I got to hold a $500 and a $1,000 with Presidents McKinley and Cleveland, respectively. Those were fun.)
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not so bad for me, but then I keep my internal organs internally...

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Of course. Choosing to be a client or not is equal to choosing to be a proprietor. Same argument raged over smoking. I don't agree that framework is estabished. It's self-evident.
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  • -1
    Posted by Wnston 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is clearly delusional. A home-based business is not appendix to the general public.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are pros and cons to all kids of self-defense methods.
    I've practiced some with a concealed carry drawing technique with a chambered round.
    I draw with my right hand while shucking off the pocket holster with my left hand. My right hand is still coming up while I thumb down the safety, take quick aim and shoot.
    I also have the confidence that comes with NRA qualifying with a hand gun 21 times.
    Not to mention some target practice at this or that range. .
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There was an old SCA song about that, "Leave your Weapons at the Door". It was about disarming everyone who came to the dance; pistol, sword,...when they got to the karateka they had to cut off his hands. Then came the local Don Juan, whose weapon was...uh...you get the drift...

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You evidently attract some characters! I would like to think that there is a qualitative difference between 'nonconformist' and 'nutty as a fruitcake'...but one is least able to judge ones own condition. Perhaps I am just fooling myself.

    I suppose the only reassurance I have against a totally loonie label is that I have many intelligent friends who are quite forthright about their opinions when they think I am incorrect. They are courteous, though...so...hmmm.

    Good stories. Odd that you remember the price and the denominations of the change.

    Jan
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  • Posted by 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Are you saying a person's right to bear arms supersedes a private business owner's right to make rules barring guns from his store? What if my store is in my house? Are you saying I forfeit my right to make rules for my guests?

    Have you read Ayn Rand's essay against Racism? It's very good. She argues against racism as well as the protected classes in the 1965 Civil Rights Act. The problem with anti-discrimination laws and protected classes is that it violates private property rights. And private property rights are fundamental to all individual rights.

    http://alexpeak.com/twr/racism/

    [It's probably posted elsewhere? But this is the first one I found.]
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It seems to me, that a person open-carrying may need to answer a lot more questions and/or challenges than a person concealed carrying (essentially anyone else). It would be a misstep for those of us advocating for the rights and responsibilities of the many, particularly in the present environment, if such a person carrying was a Walmart fool rather than an informed citizen.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Have you read Ayn Rand's essay against Racism? It's very good. She argues against racism as well as the protected classes in the 1965 Civil Rights Act. The free market will correct evils like racism.

    http://alexpeak.com/twr/racism/

    [It's probably posted elsewhere? But this is the first one I found.]
    Reply | Permalink  

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