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Trade declines across the world

Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 3 months ago to Economics
67 comments | Share | Flag

It is concerning that trade is falling across the globe for all the reasons cited by the Wall Street Journal. But TPP/TPA is a disaster for freedom - including free trade - because it suborns US sovereignty.

I really wished I could have left a comment for the author at the bottom.


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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    From my experience one must be VERY specific about the specs you want on each thing. If you arent specific, you get some sort of generalized specification that is indigenous to the chinese way of doing things. Quality and specs are often different from what is commonplace here in the US. When I specify exactly what I want, they seem to be good at getting it right.

    I find it amazing that people here think that increasing the minimum wage is not going to decrease jobs. I say all jobs not worth $15 an hour in this international arena will simply disappear when the government mandates the wage.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That was my original point. We let this happen. I'm not arguing that today Chinese can't make quality product, although I would argue you need to be careful in selection. It is hit or miss.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Prob in 1999 there were US suppliers that made the products, and the chinese quality wasnt very good. But the chinese were smart and improved their products while our government made it harder to manufacture here. The nail in the coffin will be the $15/hr minimum wage. We will have to lay off half our staff for sure. If we bump the prices of the products, we will lose business for sure.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    good point. I know that our small business has paid $11,000 so far in the last three years into the state unemployment fund (we have had NO layoffs during that time) - that just sits there !!! We only have 5-8 employees. Each year we pay $1300 in state business license fees, $100 local business license fees, and an unknown amount in real estate property taxes (we rent). Thats in addition to the payroll taxes, and several new taxes our traitorous republican governor slipped into the mix that we will have to pay next year. Another hike in sales/use taxes. Lately the government has forced us to account for ALL property used in business and tacked a 1% per year levy on that. Pretty disugsting I think. I really dont see what I get back for all that money.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I get equal or better quality from the companies I deal with in china at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of sourcing them here or building them ourselves. In fact, a lot of suppliers here that offer subassemblies buy them from china and just resell them here rather than make them on their own. An example is a 4 foot 2 conductor trailer plug I get for 65cents from china. Buying the same thing here costs over $2.00, and I bet DelCity gets them from china anyway.
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  • Posted by MountainLady 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I blame Feminists. And one reason is that they have made Big Government a friendly helpful we-can't-do-without-Mommy institution.

    If you have a chance, go to "One Political Plaza" and read my thread: "Of Mice and Matriarchies, Or How and Why Female Oligarchies Stifle Creativity and Productivity." Comments appreciated.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Unions as you should know by now are the third leg or more like a kick stand to the standard Socialist Triumverate. Have beeen since the 1930's
    One Government and military, Two Big Really big business meaning financial controllers. Three Labor Leaders and very specifically that does not include members just http://leaders.as do the other two. The modern terms are statist, corporatist, labor. Socialist goes in front, fascist tags on the back end. The end result of that effort was National Socialism but they got their start with pure or International Socialism

    Some change have become more apparent. There is always an elitest ruling class in ALL socialist organizations. Plato's escape hatch.

    Even the triumverate has it's heirarchy. Think of the old penny farthing bicycle One Big Wheel, One smaller wheel and a kick stand as modern convenience. Also there is a set of handle bars for steering. Control over Government over Corporate Financial over Labor. Apply what you said to that eighty five or ninety year old framework ha ha ha form to the purists add in the three definitions of left, right, center, Click Click Click it all falls into place.

    Government Over Citizens

    Left but use the center of the left as the false center or as Mike said between Rinos and Reublicans. He's more optomistic and forgiving than I

    Citizens Over Government Right (but to right of tthe false center) and for the most part squarely in the True Center or very close That for us is/was the Constitution.

    That's horizontal vertical is the old God, King Country people changed to People over Government The right according to the left was the seat of power divine right of kings and all that. That job was taken by the left when they quit the classless society and went to a class society. leaders apparatchiks the rest...

    1776 to 1788 the divine right of Kings became the right of citizens and that's where the true power should be seen.

    Unless they abdicate their responsibilities.

    Add in the extremists anarchist to the far right (lack of any government) and a choice of Nazis or National Socialists and Communists or International Socialists as the extremists of the left. Followe by SecProgs, Socialist, Dinos, Democrats and Rinos, Republicans in Left to right order.) All believe in or support Government Over People.

    Easy to understand and explains a lot.

    Their words not mine.

    They just picked up the center marker one day and put it in the center of the left then refused recognize anybody else.
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  • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    While it may be 1 in 7 on food stamps, I would suggest there are not 6 payers. Remove children, the 94 million out of the workforce and the elderly on fixed incomes and I would be surprised if there is any more than 3 of the 7 paying for the program.
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  • Posted by MountainLady 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The problem with unions, as with any other "helping" cooperative, is the lure of power becomes all-consuming.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, I believe effectively all of unions' power comes from DC. I would have no problem with unions if they didn't have (1) the power to "represent" individuals who would rather negotiate separately; (2) the power to extort political contributions (as "dues") from their opponents; and (3) exemption from the normal laws covering gang violence. I would even give them back the right to engage in secondary boycotts, which DC took away.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Got what they asked for...bad part is they drag everyone else down as they sink. One hand pinching the nose and the other point the finger.
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 3 months ago
    If voluntary trade drops, what takes its place?
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  • Posted by illucio 9 years, 3 months ago
    It´s true, we all are so used to adding comments in every section we come across nowadays that, when that possibility isn´t offered; it somewhat feels like censorship or "a loss of voice".

    As for trade and recession well, it really isn´t easy to put a specific reason. Usually, there are multiple ones and yes; alot are simply beyond our grasp and control. The market, or the notion of "the free market" is, as many other concepts; abstract as well.

    Ever since the dawn of man markets have had certain leverage and control by more than one factor. Government too can be one of these muffers, but it certainly isn´t the only one. So, you see; the complexity is not easy to understand either (though we do have the possibility of understanding, that I´m confident of).

    A strike can cause a problem in the market, so can a limit to price (to put two extremes into context). For instance, the Pear market can suffer a blow if a production line doesn´t reach a certain desired offer. If we consider the fact that this particular agricultural industry is owned by a monopoly; the fruit itself might just be left there to rot should the price not be met. This has happenned.

    A strike, on the other hand; is the power conveyed to the workers who, should they be unpleased with the share they believe is fair on their part; they can cripple an enterprise when regulations are external presence have more control than the entrepeneurs themselves.

    Both examples are real, modern day situations that should be dealt with somehow. There are many "hows" we well know of; yet the question is which is the least damaging one in general; or the most "constructive" for the short, medium and even long run.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree with that, although I don't typically go there because I shop online more and more, and Target et al have equivalent pricing and don't have the same menagerie of missing chromosomes.

    I still think considerable blame is from the unions vs DC, unless you assert all unions power comes from DC. Thus, my comment about the irony in "Pro Union" bumper stickers (I read as "pro union", "pro OSHA", "pro EPA", "anti-capitalist", "anti free market") shopping at free market, Walmart.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Shopping at WalMart is just common sense. The fact that China can produce many goods more cheaply than the US is a result of overregulation and overtaxation in the US (and greedy unions enabled by corrupt federal agencies). The blame belongs in DC.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree US made does not equal higher quality on its own, but you can not tell me 10-20 years ago, when this started, Chinese goods were anywhere near the quality of other manufacturers. For example, my brother had a Chinese jack stand fail with a huge casting flaw. They have come a long way now, but they are still not great, unless overseen (or trained) by a Western company.

    I think the "hassles" you describe are the ones I was referring to in #4. OSHA, EPA, unions, etc. These are the agencies driving up the cost to manufacture in the US.

    My point in #3 was since we have opened our market to companies without the EPA, OSHA and union drivers, which the unions find so beneficial, the market has selected the cost/quality point, and those non-compliant companies have killed ours. Shocking. The best irony ever is a pro union bumper sticker in a Walmart parking lot.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How are we going to survive when 1 out of every 7 americans are getting food stamps that the other 6 have to pay for. And thats JUST food stamps.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What about the wealth that I wind up with by employing cheap Chinese labor and selling to the relatively rich Americans. Theres no inventing involved except moving manufacturing or software development, or whatever to people who will work for less of my money.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree with all your points except #3. Buying American doesnt mean its any better, its just more expensive. I buy a lot of chinese parts and subassemblies, and they are every bit as good as what we used to make here, but somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 the cost. There are a LOT of very good companies in China making high quality stuff much cheaper- and without the hassles of employees here in the USA.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 3 months ago
    There are a lot of reasons for declines in trade. Labor disputes, delays, and high terminal charges eat up lots of the savings gleaned by buying from china. Sending things by express air shipments is even more expensive and frought with delays caused by stupid customs inspections and fees.

    BUT, the hassle of making things here in the USA with the employee regulations and taxes, not to mention the various agencies on your back for the slightest violation of their onerous labor laws- increases the costs of any alternative.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 3 months ago
    Why would a brave new world for a Socialist Utopia need any trade, albeit free or otherwise?
    Some Marxist great leader sugar daddy will always be there on Candy Mountain in accordance to our needs.
    Ask any skinny North Korean. Don;t think they get any of that diabetes much.
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