Hello MarkHinkle,
Thank you for the handy link and input.
Respectfully,
O.A.

Hello freedomforall,
Did I suggest that Liberty need be sacrificed? That is not in "what can be done" meant in my mind. My error in clarity. Let me be clear. I mean what can be done without violating rights, or diminishing the liberty our Constitution is suppose to ensure. And, I include that which we have already lost.
Regards,
O.A.

Consider the evidence of their behavior and ideologies contrary to the principles of capitalism, liberty and objectivism. These people (Clintons and Soros) epitomize elitist, big centralized command and control power mongers, that force others to live for them, by their rules, so that they might profit, regulate and push an agenda that is "their" vision of utopia, instead of allowing each of us our own. They are the best in the world at it and in making others sympathetic... for altruistic reasons of course...The New Deal, the Great Society, O'care.... more of the same that has not solved the problems intended, but instead created more including excessive taxation, division, injustice to the producers, insurmountable debt, low labor participation rates and policies that drive companies from our shores all while the time bomb of the national debt clock spins off its axis. These past failures they tout as successes because they do not care of the cost/debt, inability to pay same, or they have intent to force more socialism on us. They are cronies that buy their power and profit from unethical industrial moguls, all the way down to buying individual votes... by promising the downtrodden the gold at the end of the rainbow if " we just make the rich pay their fair share." Who is rich? Everyone that makes more money than me...

Progressives do not offer new progressive ideas; they offer old Marxist ideas repackaged and renamed, but just as inevitably doomed to oppress liberty and prosperity.

The Clintons are widely held as one of if not the most powerful political names in D.C. They profit by the power of pull. They do deals to scratch each others backs at the expense and servitude of the taxpayers. According to several reports, the Clinton Foundation has been a cash cow for the Clintons paying out an embarrassing percentage on actual charity. It was also reported that big donors received special treatment from Hillary while she was Secretary of State. Look at the past scandals, cover-ups, political upheaval. Do you desire more of that?Consider the future wide spread forced altruism, collectivism, statism and power attainment that would be the result of their expressed policies and evinced by past actions. They are anathema to the oath (see below) and demonstrate it in their actions and policies from health care to taxation. They are big government statists; the polar opposite of limited government public servants. All they need do is feign altruistic, "its all for you" motives and avoid the details and they will sell a pig in a poke.
Do more objective research on the past actions of the marxist, statist, bank breaking, "one worlder" George Soros and the failures and scandals of the Clintons going back to Arkansas. There is too much, to be dismissed out of hand like so many of their supporters and apologists do. It is pure cognitive dissonance, innocent ignorance, or denial to go on supporting this group of cronies. To suggest with a wink and a nod, that one will remember them later for donating now, even if unspoken, but understood, is unethical at best. I won't support someone that reason dictates is a crony of this magnitude.

"I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." AS

Will you investigate? objectively consider the preponderance of evidence? the probabilities?
Rand Paul was worlds away in political ideology from Hillary.. Your contradictions... I would suggest a half dozen essential reads... ... wasting my time... Some advice: "Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company."
George Washington

Much success, CG.

This is Gary Johnson's we site: https://www.garyjohnson2016.com/

The Libertarian Party hopes to be on the ballot in all 50 states, but that's going to require a lot of money.

If you want to insure Gary Johnson's name appears in all 50 states, plus DC, here's the link to make that happen: http://www.lp.org/ballotfund

If it is to be, it's up to me.

FYI................Mark Hinkle,
Retired LP Chair

Depends on what your defense options are, Herb. I don't pretend to know all the current capabilities and technology of the US military, but I'd bet my life that N Korea has near zero chance of attacking the US successfully. Who else are you afraid of that requires hundreds of thousands of US troops stationed outside the US?

He's isolationist. Most Libertarians are. That was OK 50 years ago, but when a country like N. Korea has nuclear weapons, and ICBMs you can't afford to say we'll stay out of it unless we are directly involved. Direct involvement can often mean the death of thousand or more.

Thanks for the comments.

Clearly you won't vote for a Democrat. That's why my "rant" didn't mention that branch of the statist party.
You are making the same mistake repeatedly, the mistake that GOP propaganda wants you to make. It isn't rational to make a choice between two evils when there is a third choice that is not evil. Don't waste your vote
You play the game under the rules of the statists and you lose every single time.
Vote on principle, not on fear instilled by GOP propaganda.
Rational people must take a stand against the state, no matter how unlikely victory seems at present. Clearly most Democrat voters will not choose liberty. Republican voters are the block of voters who have the opportunity to make the difference between statist dictatorship and liberty.

Quite a rant. Telling me that I am responsible for the downfall of liberty in America is way over the top. I left the GOP years ago. But I will never vote for a Democrat.

No, my memory is a lot longer than that. I remember W Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and Bill Clinton. All great examples of statist looters that Hillary Clinton not only wants to emulate but to surpass in statist, liberty-crushing glory. Is Trump a bad choice? Yes, he is horrid. Almost as bad a choice as Hillary.
Almost as bad a choice as Obama was in 2008.
By 2012 Obama had proven to be even worse, but a lot of irrational people fell for his con a second time and the results speak for themselves. Such irrational people don't learn from their own mistakes or from the observation of socialist policy disasters.
If such people really believed in liberty they wouldn't even consider wasting their votes on statists like Clinton, or Sanders, or Trump, or anyone else that the GOP selects as their puppet candidate. If they wanted liberty they would vote based on that principle instead of wasting their votes on the supposed lesser evil. No third party will ever have a chance if good men of principle continue to vote for evil.

Would you elaborate on "weak on foreign policy", please, Herb? I hear that phrase frequently but it isn't very enlightening, (in fact from most talking heads imo it's a deliberate smear without factual support. I know that isn't your intent obviously) Do you mean 'not well informed' or 'less likely to respond with force in a confrontation', or something else?

"what can be done to curb it should be"
No, can't agree. Liberty is too precious to sacrifice it.
If I had lost someone in the 9-11 activities, then I would want to know the truth first. Those who hide the truth and use the circumstances to increase their own power and wealth, and to destroy liberty are despicable, and could very well be culpable for the lives lost on 9-11 and for hundreds of thousands more since 9-11.
Elections definitely involve too little rational thought on the part of anyone who consents to more of the same.

I agree that the final collapse is being masked by the massive national debt that people are just ignoring. But I think according to the national debt clock, the debt is greater than the total wealth in the co nutty. That means we are underwater, as they say. The "old money" that people are living in is just phantom money that other people are being forced to accept as something of value. It's a house of cards which collapse of its own weight but propped up by federal reserve money printing and blind trust

Too soon. The US hasn't totally collapsed yet. The looters are alive and well. I saw them debating on TV briefly about how they were going to outduel each other to give our money away.

This election is a bit like voting for which of the five families will rule an all powerful mafia structure. I think that realization is sparking popular interest in a candidate not part of the establishment- a least bad choice. I think statism will be brought down by exposing its lack of practical performance. Accountability has not been demanded of our current government. It needs to be, and that's what I am looking for a trump to do. If that's all he does, I think it's worth a ,4 year term if it opens the eyes of our electorate

Boy. Was . That profound.

Lets get on with rebuilding the usa as a free capitalist country

If Texas withdrew from the USA, you wouldn't need a trump to be politically incorrect and expose what's going on in Washington ,!!. Get rid of minimum wage laws and wages for uneducated immigrants would fall and the so called illegal immigration would stop

If Atlas Shrugged were published by Harlequin...I probably WOULD have judged it by it's cover and never read it.
Hey...Donald and Harlequin...I can just picture him with a silly hat.

"I would have to hide in a bunker for the rest of my term."
Assuming the president could do all that stuff, you would also be adjusting the withholding tables, putting more money in people's pockets.

"Yeah, we are once again going to be stuck with someone not of our liking. Nowadays It feels lucky just to imagine having someone barely tolerable."
Yes. It's a shame.

"By striking they hastened the implosion of government and society."
I don't think this applies to our situation, though, because our society is going strong. It's nowhere near the edge of collapse. Allowing gov't to become more intrusive just gives us a more intrusive gov't. Maybe somewhere in the future it leads to a new American Revolution, but this like calling our problems a Seldon Crisis, with some master plan in the background. Right now many of the problems, including the problems of intrusive and abusive gov't, are way better than they have been in human history. Gov't not respecting liberty is the norm in human history. This bit of liberty we have now is actually the exception. I wouldn't throw it away expecting the pendulum to swing back to liberty.