American progressivism, based on
--Fabian socialism, based on
----Marxist socialism, based on
------Hegelian dialectic, based on
--------Kant's analytic-synthetic dichotomy, based on
----------Plato's shadows in the cave

Where is Aristotle in all that?

The Fabians started about 130 years ago and haven't stopped.

Sarah,
as you have read from the posters clllectivism in all of its forms is what the youth of america has been indoctrinated to support. But it has gotten even worse over the years with the youth of america believing they are entitled to every wish the have should come true. The sanders and clinton are only parroting all who proceeded them in the office, 0 just happens to be the most generous with our tax dollars and those dollars he has been able to get from else where in the world if that actually did happen. I a phrase they have "THE GIMMES".

How about a similar amendment for all adults? :)

Unfortunately a number of sociological factors come together to select for the teaching profession individuals with relatively low IQ's and (generally) below average competitiveness. So our average children (IQ = 100) are being "taught" by those with low average IQ's (ave. IQ = 85). Those teacher's life experience was not to be winners, so to quell their hurt feelings (from being losers) they eliminate keeping score and give everyone a trophy (of course, our children do keep score and know their trophies are worthless). Colleges of education are peopled by those who have never been in the real world and thus think these below average people are average (they have little experience being challenged or pushed to do better -- appearance of effort is what counts, not results). If we eliminate schools of education and only hire people with history of success who are retiring from real world experiences (e.g. retiring military or agencies/industries that retire people after 20 or 25 years) we could fix this in a generation. Of course lower IQ folks tend also to believe they need group power to be competitive, thus union membership.

Sarah, I also firmly believe that these young people who believe socialism is the way to give people what they deserve are absolutely sure that the money required to do so will not come from them. So they can be "generous" because they believe it will cost them nothing, and they may even get some freebies themselves.

Especially 2! Many that I know (of) would choose a third alternative if they believed it viable.

That's very interesting, Snoogoo. I would venture to say your comments also apply to most older people as well.

...and Hillary does not "get it" either...by calling Bernie Sanders out on his "numbers", it is the kettle calling the pot black...she coined the phrase..it takes a village (to raise a child)...today's youth have been raised in govt (public) free schools...they cannot not even apply for college unless they have so many community (slave) service hours...it is entitlement meets "duty"...they will happy to vote for Sanders, if he will give them "free" anything...and to expect the "Fed" to print the money to pay for it...

People are no longer taught the zero sum game. There is always the proverbial "them" to sweep a chunk of money from and take care of a problem. The idea that there is an alternate forgone opportunity from the money is lost.
Neither are young people taught that the rich don't just accumulate wealth, they spend it, or how wealth is created. If you don't understand wealth creation, and listen to the media about "unfair income or wealth inequality" you are drawn into the defend the underdog psyche. How could they think otherwise.

Here is what one 30-something said: "I am going to listen to the economists that do nothing but run these numbers for a living who are behind Bernie, instead of listening to more politicians."

An experienced, mature person has the ability to think through distant, unintended, but totally foreseeable consequences. Someone who is intellectually and emotionally immature thinks maybe one step into the future. So, if you tell this young kid "You are getting college for FREE!" all they think is "I'm getting college for FREE!" If you tell someone who is intellectually and emotionally mature the same thing the first response is "OK,what's the catch?" Because they know that if something is too good to be true it probably is a scam, or Ponzi scheme. The more mature person will then work their way through the logical consequences to the conclusion and figure out that you will pay for it eventually, now, or later. If you want to have some fun, try the following as a litmus test of intellectual maturity: When you go into a store and a sales person asks "Can I help you?" say "I'm beyond that." Most young sales kids will give you a quizzical look and walk off because they can't think through it. All they get is that you gave an unexpected response. Most mature folks will give you a courtesy laugh because they get the dumb joke because they can think through the train of thought to the end.

When I get elected, I will make Atlas Shrugged a requirement to get your driver's license.

As part of that course, each individual will be assigned one individual from the book and argue that that character is completely correct and justified.

Character assignments will be randomly drawn, so one never knows if the argument will be from James Taggart's point of view, or from Quentin Daniels' perspective, etc.

If everyone had to consider the dystopia that Ayn Rand so beautifully and brilliantly created in A.S., I think at least some of them would quickly understand why they were wrong in their beliefs.

Young people are taught that selflessness is the highest level of personal development. They're also taught to put emotion before reason: "follow your heart", "mean people suck", "guns are evil", etc..

It is simply education. They have no sense to realize that they will pay dearly later in life for the excessive spending by our politicians.

I decided years ago NOT to have children. Most of their lives would be living in the decline of the USA, and it wouldnt be pretty.

Because he makes socialism sound like the ultimate community service program. And he makes it sound so easy. He gives no math. No one asks him for any.

And I think they look for a future in which the government will decide what gets made, and for whom, and how much of it, and what reward anyone will get.

"Sing to our rainbow fatherland,
Built by the people's mighty hand!
Long live the people, united and free!
Strong in our friendships tried by fire!
Long may our crimson flag inspire,
Shining in glory for all folk to see!"

Paraphrase of the refrain of the State Hymn of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Paul Robeson, original translator.

And maybe substitute "sky-blue" for "crimson." As in: the flag of the United Nations.

The accountability issue isnt raised. Socialism costs the people who work in order to pay for the people who dont. Plus, the government takes a cut for providing these services (a very BIG cut because they are inefficient). In addition, the government isnt very good at providing the services and it gets away with non performance.

Young people today are "entitled" and used to be taken care of by family and then society in general.

The idea that one is living in a loving, caring world that will take away all pain and suffering is attractive. Who wouldnt want that? All thats needed is a money tree. Both Hillary and Sanders promise that the money tree is there (the rich people) and will always be there without working to keep it alive. Cant we all just get along? Socialism will do all these things for you....

Government schools have not taught how to think and have egregiously taught a modified history and twisted economics to students. Remember, the frontal cortex does not mature until the early twenties and the indoctrinators have a free hand to condition the students not to think — just to feel.

I hear this same thing at our local schools in Wisconsin.

Thanks for your reply. I get that you are not sure. I think we are all guessing a little since we cannot see inside anyone's head. For me, hearing what a student sees helps validate or invalidate what I am thinking. Just one more piece of the equation.

I would ask one more question. Since you are taught with the same teachers and books, what do you believe kept you from the same path as the others?

They are being "taught" to compete in the best traditions of the soviet block.

Abaco, both my children had "mandatory volunteer hours" in order to graduate from high school. We made them up.

A couple years ago I was talking to a lady friend of mine about her son. I watched this boy grow up from the age of 2. Sweet kid. Anyway, she told me that in order for him to graduate from his high school (public) he had mandatory "volunteer" community service. I took a few minutes to point out the irony in that requirement. It made an impression on me and made me realize just how twisted our system is.

These kids can't help it. They are screwed from the start.

This leads into a related topic that I am going to start a new thread on.

I asked precisely because I'm not sure; however, I think the democratic indoctrination in K-12 has contributed a lot. I also think that a lot of them are good-willed, and they mistakenly believe socialism is the way to give the "underprivileged" what they deserve. I don't, but a lot of people I know do, and it's sad.