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Now I know why NOT to vote for Trump

Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 2 months ago to Politics
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I was drawn to Trump for various reasons – his boldness, anti-political correctness, his recognition of real problems and not being afraid of talking about them in real terms. Much of what he said has been twisted by the media and made appear crude, insensitive, even illegal, but the media is very good at that… So, none of those issues bothered me at all, in fact, I was glad that he brought them up and I agree with many of them. But I also recognized that he is “loose cannon” and difficult to predict. He had the potential for much needed changes and for going off the constitutional path altogether. Yet, recognizing that essentially staying on the course of the past 30 or 40 years, were bound to fail, and fail big. However, the eye-opener was the debate in South Carolina, when the moderator pressed Trump to explain his often made claim that he plans to “make America great again” – as to, specifically, how? Trump answered that he would prevent US corporations from shipping jobs overseas by enacting (in proposed cooperation with Congress) a punitive tax (or tariff) on them of, say, extra 35%. So, instead of creating favorable conditions for the businesses (and individuals) by lowering taxes and eliminating frivolous regulations, Trumps proposed to be an American Hugo Chavez. One would think that he was reading Directive 10-289! And we all know how well this Directive has worked in Venezuela and how well it is working in Russia. So, this was my eye-opener. And a special thanks to Freedom for pointing at Gary Johnson – if Trump does indeed gets the nomination, I am definitely voting for Johnson.


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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 2 months ago
    I think that should have been obvious from the beginning. If you examine a candidate's philosophical leanings you will have a much better understanding of what they will really do in office.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Interesting that you would allow Sanders to be president if it were a choice between Trump and Sanders. I hope you dont mind the relatively immediate consequences of socialism being forced down your throat (check out Veneuela to see how that worked out for them)
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    First of all, the president cant get anything through of real significance unless he gets the congress to go along. In this political climate of advancing statism, its important to have a president who will tell it like it is and stand up to a socialist congress (if it turns socialist like it did for Obamacare).

    The Tariff issue was brought up I think to scare the Chinese government. It would never actually be put into practice because it would hurt us as much as them.

    Trump is not an objectivist and wont prevent a socialist end time crash. But he will slow it down a bit. Sanders on the other hand would accelerate it
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I suspect that Trump is sending a message to the chinese that they should not be so cocky as they have been. After all, communist chinese are not our "friends". Trump isnt so stupid as to actually press for a tariff which would hurt businesses here a great deal, and overnight.. Congress would never allow it anyway. As for Cruz, I just read an article on Cruz and a bill he is pushing to strip americans of their citizenship- check this out http://theweek.com/articles/604541/aw...
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  • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    On the surface, Trump's promises are good. But not sustainable. One cannot continue with the "entitlements," keep most of the regulations (he's not talking about the repeal of regulations or the closing of the 3-letter agencies), and tremendously improve the economy, even with a moderate tax cut. Especially if he enacts a high tariff. He may carve out a good living for certain industries, but overall, his policy will either lead to a crash or will simply be replaced with something else, and what that else will be is total guess.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That remains to be decided. There is still a lot of politicking between now and July when the Primaries conclude.

    If the vote really comes down to Trump vs Sanders, I'll probably vote via write-in. Sanders is avowed socialist and Trump is socialist lite.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    He is a zealot and that is, of course, very troubling. One can only hope that his adherence to the Constitution will keep him in check. As for Trump, he's always been a loose cannon, but I can see now that he's not a free market oriented loose cannon; more like National Socialist cannon.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have suspected he is just tossing that out there to scare the chinese a bit. China's leadershp is trying to show how strong they are against the USA, and Trump is telling them that if we set a 35% tariff, their trade with the USA would pretty much evaporate
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Say what you will, but its either Trump or Sanders in November. No one out of the current pack of contenders on any of the parties have a snowball's chance in hell of being elected.

    So pick the least bad of whats out there. We WILL get one or the other.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    People on this forum must feel more comfortable with Sanders as president, because thats what they are going to get if Trump doesnt make it. Its just whats going to happen in this political arena. Establishment politicians are DONE in this election, and that left Fiorina, Trump, and Carson on the Republican side. Fiorina has NO traction, nor does Carson. As to Libertarian candidate Johnson, what he says is good and I like it, but I might as well put my vote on toilet paper and toss it. He has less than NO traction, and no matter what ALL the gulchers do, he wont have enough votes in November to come close to winning anything.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trump is a businessman. He would never actually promote a 10-289 solution. That would kill the economy, period, and he knows it.

    I have a 10 person company, and we now buy 3/4 of our raw materials and subassemblies from china for a very simple reason- we would be unable to compete in the marketplace at the prices needed to NOT buy from China. Customers would simply not have the money to spend on our products, and would cut their purchases. We dont make essential products, and customers would simply choose to spend what money they had left on more essential products. Right now, if we show profits over $50,000 we have to pay 35% tax. Why bother at that rate??? Cutting taxes back to 15% would make a big difference to our small company.

    The other candidates are either religious zealots (god only knows what the will do when in office), or they want $12-$15 minimum wages, incredibly higher taxes, 12 weeks paid parental or sickness leave, and other things like that. Any one of those things would bankrupt a LOT of small businesses. Its Trump for me.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The 35% is the top end, not what he is proposing, actually he is currently just trying to demonstrate that the rules can be changed as a threat. The trick to Trump is the deal -- you never open with the position you expect to come to in the end.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree. Trump is not stupid. 35% import tariff would kill businesses that are currently supplying goods from China because they cant afford to pay american wages and entitlements. He would never even get that through Congress.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Cruz is a religious zealot. He actually wanted to kick the gays out of the military again ( for religious reasons no doubt). I am DONE with being regulated by crazy religious tenets. We need separation of church and state finally and for real. Johnson would never be elected, so thats a wasted vote. Trump would never get a 35% tariff passed Congress no matter how much he wanted it. Prices of almost everything would go up immediately and cause a depression as people couldnt afford to pay the american wages. Our small company of 10 people would simply close, as would walmart I suspect.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 2 months ago
    I'm in the same boat as you, strugatsky. I was also initially drawn to Trump's anti-PC, bold talk and his border and anti-illegal immigration stance. But after I started digging into him, I was very turned off by his policy statements and actions supporting big government - whether it be through entitlements or eminent domain. His bankruptcy history also didn't give me much confidence.

    Now that he's been on the campaign trail, I haven't seen much of him change except to get more argumentative, petulant, and whiny. Though I think he has had some great zingers - like the one about Jeb Bush - his hypocritical denunciations of Ted Cruz for doing exactly what Trump is doing tell me he's just another politician at heart. And given his policy leanings, he's certainly neither a Constitutionalist nor someone who would really "make America great again". He's another narcissist, and we've already had eight years of that.
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 2 months ago
    I do not believe any of the candidates for any party is qualified to become president of the USA and for that matter i doubt that there is anyone who has the qualifications. I am in favor of letting the office stay vacant!
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  • Posted by bsudell 9 years, 2 months ago
    The reason that America is so "off track" is because we have NOT been following the Constitution, the actual law of our land. Only one candidate wants to follow it -- Ted Cruz. That is who I will vote for.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 2 months ago
    As a President, Trump would be an effective Real Estate Developer. His stream of consciousness rants illustrates an almost ludicrous lack of knowledge, especially in economics. He may learn on the job, but if he doesn't and continues with his present attitudes and lack of knowledge, I predict a disaster as bad, or possibly worse than Obama. If that's even possible.
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  • Posted by Rex_Little 9 years, 2 months ago
    I was never going to vote for Trump--I've voted for every Libertarian candidate for President in the history of the party--but it's going to be really entertaining if he gets the nomination. For one thing, I expect he'll get more Black votes than any Republican in the last hundred years, and the talking heads will explode.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are not wrong at all. Benito Trump will attempt to control economic activity by fiat, threats and taxes and tariffs. Fie on him.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't know who is writing the web site, but it doesn't track what he has repeatedly said on the stump and in debates. He has said, again and again, that he will not "allow" companies to move facilities outside the country and that he will erect punitive tariffs (although he does not use the word) to prevent foreign producers from selling in the US at favorable prices that are inducing US consumers to buy those goods. I'm not voting for Benito Trump under any circumstances.
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    Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Cruz is the closest to a Constitutionalist on that stage, but too heavy on religion for my taste (still, probably the best of that bunch); Rubio sounds like a broken record with the same talking points; Carson, with all my respect for him, does not have a good knowledge of the world around him and, from several things that he had said earlier, appears to be very uneducated (outside of medicine, of course, but we're not looking for a witch doctor...); Kasitch needs to be on the other stage, right between Hillary and Bernie. Johnson is looking better all the time...
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    Posted by $ SarahMontalbano 9 years, 2 months ago
    Trump talking "real" is refreshing, but when I actually listen to what he says, I cannot support him. That bit from the Saturday debate was one bit of many unsettling things I've heard. Although he's probably not the worst candidate. Thanks to the Gulch, I would vote for Gary Johnson, if I were allowed to.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    He also said in the same debate that he is not planning on cutting anyone's "entitlements." He spoke in more detail about preserving SS, but he kept stressing "not cutting entitlements." Without a very bold and radical plan of eliminating practically all regulations, which he is not planning on doing, and not eliminating welfare, there will be no incentive for an average perpetually unemployed American to all of a sudden wanting to work and for those that are barely working to all of a sudden desire to be productive employees. Thus, businesses will continue to move overseas where regulations are less and the workforce is willing to work. Then Trump will order Directive 10-289. Hitler, too, did not want to kill the Jews – he offered them passage to any country that would take them. Not one did. So Hitler was “forced” to order his Directive…
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