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Now I know why NOT to vote for Trump

Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 2 months ago to Politics
154 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

I was drawn to Trump for various reasons – his boldness, anti-political correctness, his recognition of real problems and not being afraid of talking about them in real terms. Much of what he said has been twisted by the media and made appear crude, insensitive, even illegal, but the media is very good at that… So, none of those issues bothered me at all, in fact, I was glad that he brought them up and I agree with many of them. But I also recognized that he is “loose cannon” and difficult to predict. He had the potential for much needed changes and for going off the constitutional path altogether. Yet, recognizing that essentially staying on the course of the past 30 or 40 years, were bound to fail, and fail big. However, the eye-opener was the debate in South Carolina, when the moderator pressed Trump to explain his often made claim that he plans to “make America great again” – as to, specifically, how? Trump answered that he would prevent US corporations from shipping jobs overseas by enacting (in proposed cooperation with Congress) a punitive tax (or tariff) on them of, say, extra 35%. So, instead of creating favorable conditions for the businesses (and individuals) by lowering taxes and eliminating frivolous regulations, Trumps proposed to be an American Hugo Chavez. One would think that he was reading Directive 10-289! And we all know how well this Directive has worked in Venezuela and how well it is working in Russia. So, this was my eye-opener. And a special thanks to Freedom for pointing at Gary Johnson – if Trump does indeed gets the nomination, I am definitely voting for Johnson.


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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    wow. well you will get hillary or sanders in november then. In this mob rule country, the majority can do whatever they want, and I get only one vote (you too). All bets are off, and 10-289 is coming for sure with Sanders or Hillary (continuing Obamas legacy). With trump it would take somewhat longer.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Havent heard that one. What Obama did was not cost effective for the majority of us, however. One would think that single payer would be even MORE expensive, but probably hidden in the mass of money printing that the government does.

    I think Obama wanted that but couldnt get the votes. Sanders wants it, and probably Hillary does too. I did think that the way Obama set up these exchanges that cost so much now was done to let the government come in with lower cost medicare for everyone and kill off the insurance companies. The companies were stupid to fall in behind him in exchange for the high rates they are getting now.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually polling indicates that Trump is the only one that would loose to sanders out of the top 5 candidates.

    To many, (30-33% of registered republicans depending on which poll you look at) state they will not vote for him. I am one of those. If its a trump and (fill in dem here) race Gary will get my vote, or I will write in another. Trump is worse for our country than any other candidate on either side. Simply because he would represent the small government side of the isle while he is not small government.

    I do not need another who will say in order to save capitalism we had to move away from capitalism representing small government. That would move the overton window further towards big government and be more damaging to us all than if Bernie were in office.

    Trump would be a better fit if he were on the Dem primary and competing with the other big government control types for his place in office.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    you can rant about trump to your hearts delight. BUT, in this election in November, if not Trump it will be Sanders in all liklihood (Perhaps Hillary) as the next president. Lets see what you think of their ethics, performance, and the state of the country after a short stint of rapidly advancing socialism.
    There are just not any objectivist candidates out there that are remotely electable, Much more education of people in general will be required before that would happen (unfortunately)
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trump is for single payer health care. He has said so. The government is going to pay for health care for everyone. So if your trying to differentiate trump from Obama that is a bad item to bring up. Trump is just like Obama in that way and many others as well.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    First of all, I am not so sure Bernie is that innocent. Does he not read the news about Venezuela and its socialism? I am on the fence that he is just power hungry and panders to people' desires to get "taken care of". He would do far worse than Madoff in practice, and never actually deliver on his promises any more than Hillary, Obama, or Bush for that matter. Enough on this, however. He is what he is, and at least he is honest about stealing the money tree from your back yard that you have watered and cared for all these years.

    Trump is making a point about how the chinese want to sell to us, but their government tries to prevent their people from buying from us. Its a good point, actually. Free trade would be great on both sides for the people- perhaps not for the governments involved however. He is jockeying for position- a lot better than Nobama did.

    Reagan did only one thing good in my opinion. He stuck to the star wars defense idea and convinced the russians that we were completely protected, all the while being able to launch a first strike against them. Gorbachev was outgunned and basically capitulated. The rest of what Reagan did wasnt good. He was very statist.

    He is brutally honest and not politically correct. Which we need in this country. If everyone said what they thought, things would be a LOT better, and more people would get along in the end I think.

    This has been a very crony capitalistic country for a LONG time, but it isnt talked about very much. Trump was the first I have heard who admitted that he used the various crony laws out there and basically said "if those laws are there, I use them like everyone else. If you dont like the laws get rid of them" (paraphrased) . I thought that was quite a unique thing to say for a politician. Good for him.
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  • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I cannot give breaks on ethics. Lying is lying whether it is out in the open or behind a closed door and it is unethical.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    BK laws were put in by voters and politicians, not Trump. A LOT of other people went BK during the last recession. Believe me, I know this living in Las Vegas.
    Buffet is about the only one who turned his inheritance into a real fortune. Most of that fortune will be usurped by our government when he dies anyway, so one could wonder why he did it in the first place..
    I just cant get past the idea that in THIS election, its going to be Sanders or Trump, and I choose Trump to do less damage by FAR than Sanders (or Hillary should she survive to the election)
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Funny thing, but the best thing the government can do is 'Get out of the way". Anything except ZERO taxes simply hurts the economy- and lowering taxes just reduces the hurt on the economy that the government already was doing.

    Why are we letting the government play the word game talking about lowering taxes is a good thing. Its just making the bad they have already done a little less bad.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trump is using his deal making approach to working with other countries. Give him a break on that. He is making the point that China is not so much in the drivers seat that we buy from them, but our companies cant sell in china. He is telling them that they need to loosen up their import restrictions. THEN there are the real negotiations that come later.

    I would rather this than the back room clinton-esque secret deals that have been done before which seem to benefit china, iran, syria, and russia far more than us. BRING THESE THINGS OUT so we can all see whats up. Trump does this.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I disagree. Please look at what Trump has done 4 times to pull out bankruptcy. He was willing to barrow junk bonds, after giving his word he would not fund the Tag Mahal (spelling not right) with junk bonds to other lenders and financed the whole thing to point of 1.4 billion dollars which all his lenders lost in his bankruptcy. Why do you think he would do differently with the countrys finances?

    In the 1970s Warren Buffet and Trump both inharited 40 million. Buffet has turned it into 80 billion without a string of bankruptcies where he did not pay his debts. If Trump had simply put the money in a 5% yeild savings account he would have about 3.2 billion today. He claims about 10 billion, far higher Forbes has him at 3.7 billion. He has cost people more than 2 billion in bankruptcies that he never paid back, and stolen billions in subsidies from the government as well. I have not been able to find our how much, so I am guessing.

    That shows the kind of smarts of a big business guy that is in bed with the government to make profit from the favor system, not a business man who has been successful based on accomplsihments.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why would Trump be grandstanding to the Chinese while in a fight for his life (ok, future...) on the stage in SC? The world is full of zealots of all kind, who truly believe in the path that they outline for others and those paths have often led to disaster. Even Regan's first term was close to disaster, until he learned and recovered in the second term. With Obama, no discussion is necessary because we all know that his path is purposeful destruction of the US, but Bernie is not an intentional enemy of the country - I think that he does believe that he is doing good - but he's too stupid to understand what his "good" will lead to. Trump never lived in a free market society - not physically, not virtually through education. We can have good reason that he does believe what he is saying, and it's coming from his life-long experience of crony capitalism and mafia-like arm twisting and dealing in Washington and New York.
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  • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry, I didn't mention him being stupid. I'm more concerned if he is lying about the tariff issue or anything else as far as that goes. I still cannot knowingly vote for someone who will say one thing and do another.

    I would not bank on him not getting something through our "go along with Obama congress". I agree, we are not making things here without major reductions in regulations and costs.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are two issues most people will disagree with Cruz on in this place. You are hitting on one of them.

    His value, does not matter where it comes from, is that life begins at conception and abortion is murder. I happen to share that value as well.

    He and I differ in that I do not think the government, federal or state, should govern murder in this area because it cannot be proven that life begins at conception. It is belief based and thereby restricted (1st amendment, no law governing religion) from being governed by the fed (my interpretation, not Cruz's) and while not expressly against the constitution states should also stay out of that one. I include doctors choice to perform the abortion or not as well. Pro choicers that want to force doctors to perform them really get under my skin. If you believe in freedom to choose, it must work both ways.

    Lets look at some things he has done I do like and that I think you will like.
    1) Subsidies. While campaigning in Iowa people asked him his stance on corn subsidies. He did not pander and said very directly that he was in favor of removing all subsidies, corn and bio-fuel subsidies included. I thought it would cost him the win there, it did not. I am particularly impressed that he held to his position when it would not be popular or prudent politically.

    2) EPA, he has said that he would remove the EPA and leave that role to the states

    3) Federal divisions created by executive order. He has said that he would reverse federal departments created by executive order, they are unconstitutional as congress would need to approve the creation of new federal departments, and in many cases it may require an ammendment to form the organization. I have never found something more specific on this.

    3) 10% flat tax that he has proposed in the senate, and stated he would push as president. He has also stated that it can be paid for by increased commerce brought about by it, and by the removal of regulations which cost business and government billions each year. He has not specified what regulation.

    4) Immigration. He added an amendment to the big 8 bill that poison pilled it. Basically they kept saying it was not about citizenship, so he added an amendment the stated no one could gain citizenship through this bill. It killed the amnesty and citizenship. If not for this we would have 12 million illegals being awarded citizenship right now.

    5) He is the only standing Senator or Representative who has tried to do everything he ran on to get into the senate. In most cases alone or with one or two other senators/representatives by his side which limited success.

    I am not without concerns about the guy, but if he did one or more of the first 3 it would be a huge step in the right direction.

    The biggest fact to me that makes me like him, the GOP is funding two other candidates and running attack adds against him. The DNC also attacks him. When both of them hate you, you are doing something right. Becuase of this I think very unlikely he would get in, but if he did I think we would see a shift in the right direction.

    Oh and the other thing he is big on is Marriage between a man and a woman. I personally agree with him on this, but do not agree with his approach. Marriage (religious union) and civil union need to be seperate things. Marriages are what churches do, civil unions are legal contracts. This method preserves the rights of the legal contract to everyone (and all documents should read civil union) and allows churches to practice their belief without retribution from the IRS or other through legal channels.

    I have never seen a candidate I agree with everything on, Cruz is no different, but he is worth looking at as his track record and his work before politics shows him to be an original intent constitutionalist in my opinion.

    To answer your question cruz will talk about both abortion and gay marriage when appropriate to garner votes. He cannot do either without congress because he wont use executive order to do so. Congress wont back him up and neither will the courts on either, So its a fact that he believes as he does, and also a fact that he cant act on those beliefs.

    Some of the other things I have listed I think he may be able to act upon
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But Trump is not stupid. He grandstands, but in the end a 35% tariff would cripple our economy within a few months, and he would have to know it.

    Most american companies have transferred their labor intensive operations to china by buying from chinese companies (I know because I have done it). American consumers would never pay for american workers to build the stuff they use- the prices would be too high. They would just tone down their purchases to the really essential things.

    Trump is grandstanding to the chinese to get them to allow OUR items to be sold in china more easily.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trump is not stupid, however. He knows that a 35% tariff on chinese goods would cripple our economy, NOT help it.

    Plus he would never get that through congress, because they know it would cripple the economy. The cost of chinese goods is like 1/3 that of made-in-america goods. No one is going to revert to hiring americans at this point when regulations and costs are so high here.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have thought that Hillary would be sidelined by someone this time, as she was sidelined by obama at the last minure last time she ran.

    This time it will probably be Sanders who sidelines her. If so, probably any of the 2nd rate GOP'ers could beat him, but Trump would easily defeat him.

    Sanders just needs money trees to support him. The problem is that he wants to take OUR backyard money trees to pay for the crumbs he gives us in our front yards.
    Saying Hillary is bad is NOT a reason to vote FOR Trump. But saying Hillary is worse and has promised and done terrible things to us IS a reason to vote against her for something that is better. And that is Trump this time. The intellectually better candidates this time are all gone and our of the picture.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't know anything about Cruz except what he made available for public consumption. Now, let's take this flaming example - abortion. Cruz is quite clear that he is against abortions, based on his religious beliefs. However, the Constitution is quite clear (in my mind) that the Federal government has no say in the matter. So, which way will Cruz act?
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trump is a pragmatist and will say or do anything that is expedient at the time with no regard for law or the constitution.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints. In my religion I have:

    1) Harry Reid - Do not see how he practices the same religion I do.
    2) Mitt Romney - While I disagree with much of what he says, I can see where he is coming from.
    3) Glenn Beck - Pretty close to myself.

    Each of those three interprets the same religion very differently. Religion, even a zealot, is not something I measure a person by.

    What are there principles and values based off the record we can see and what they say?

    If they are a Atheist Zealot that goes around suing people and attempting to use the courts to break the first amendment, I am not interested in them. That Atheist falls in the same camp as Harry Reid as far as I am concerned.

    I do not worry about what religion a person is, but what principles they espouse. Cruz is an original intent constitutionalist based on his past behavior and speech.

    As far as religion goes, I think "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is pretty clear and its walked over in many ways today.

    Unless I run I will never see a candidate I agree with everything on. If I did Its a dam near sure sign that I am not using my mind. Rejecting a candidate because he is whatever form of Christianity Cruz is is foolish, just as foolish as rejecting someone because they are atheist.

    I look at what the person does and says and back them up on that alone, or choose not to.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trump would be happy to put that Tariff in place by executive order. He has said multiple times that he would use executive order, he would just use it for "good" things.

    I do not need another tyrant of the executive order in office.
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  • Posted by JCLanier 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    MichaelA: Point taken. Following your words, I do wonder why he would "enslave" all his companies and implement impossible limitations on US companies wanting to expand internationally? He would effectively be destroying his current empire...
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 2 months ago
    You know that if you took all the voters who called themselves "conservative" and polled them that a vast majority of them would be in favor of that proposal to just tax the corporations. Haha....DOH!
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