Is Kelley Right in his article "The Face of Evil is ISIS"

Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 1 month ago to Politics
135 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

Kelley substantially states the same arguments made by the neocons and standard conservatives, to wit: the Muslims hate us because of our culture. But, could this be wrong? Is there at least one other motive which drives the Muslims even more than that the standard answer? For example, about 90% of the “bad guys” have said the motivation is the Western World putting their noses under the Muslim Tents. So, if the West simply left them alone to live on dirt floors, would they withdraw with this fight against West go back to happily doing something else, like fighting among themselves? Ron Paul (and others) makes a good case for this position.


All Comments


Previous comments...   You are currently on page 3.
  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 1 month ago
    Kelley is right except in defining the enemy properly (at least by the quote above): the face of evil is totalitarian Islam, not merely ISIS.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree, and that includes the Christians who were the victors and wrote the history we are taught in government and other schools. Convert or die was the message given to the indigenous people by the Christians in what is now Argentina and Uruguay. The locals said no. The Christians murdered every man, woman and child. In Patagonia, Tierra del Fuego, the indigenous people were told to get out of the way and allow the Christian farmers to farm. They said no. The Selknam Genocide was authorized and conducted by the farmers and between 1884-1900 resulted in a severe indigenous population decline. Large companies paid sheep farmers or militia a bounty for each Selk'nam dead, which was confirmed on presentation of a pair of hands or ears, or later a complete skull. They were given more for the death of a woman than a man — thus giving more than equal pay to women. Almost all were murdered and the last of the Selknam survivors (a woman) died of old age (as I recall) in the 1980s.

    As to response in today's world, what the US and West has being doing for the last 70 years obviously does not work as show by the fact the violence is increasing rather than decreasing. Perhaps it is time to reassess the situation.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I am sure they did hate us (us being the West). Hell, there were untold wars between Christians and Muslims with historians and old wooden depictions of them decapitating each other and send the heads to the opposing side with catapults. But their fights were along the “front lines” and not with tactics of random attacks far inside the lines. Your point, I think, says they hated us long ago, long before there was a difference in our life styles. Therefore, as I understand you, it is not the culture differences that motivates the attacks.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    This, right or wrong, does not address my point, And, to answer in passing, why would not the flying of the US flag for such a purpose in a foreign country serve embitter people against the US?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    So has the Christian world. In that they are equal. But that still does not address the point I raised.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    A quite accurate portrayal but it leaves out the use of terrorism and how it spread in different parts of the world. Something we studied quite closely at Fort Bragg. and on duty assignments in various places. The rule was if you wanted to study something that was frowned upon you did it by reversing the name.

    For example Lock Picking became Defense Against Mechanical Entry.

    Much of terrorism as a strategy and a tactic were taught at schools in the Soviet Union, no big secret, as well as in the schools of the US military. One was listed as revolutionary warfare and was political heavy. The other was listed as counter-revolutionary or insurgency and counter insurgency.

    No matter which side it was heavily political which led to detailed area studies of any particular society. Included were psychological warfare and propaganda techniques designed to influence a target population. You can find the same modified or purpose built in the USA political system and especially in the Secular Progressive group. All the principles and tenets are the same.

    Carlos Marighella of Brazil (Mini Manual for Urban Guerrilla) developed (with others) the circle or cycle of repression and used it in an attempt to take over Brazil. Executed. But the system refined itself and went to nearby Uruguay for use by the Tupamaro Guerrillas.

    The system was oriented towards suburbs and cities more so than the backwoods mountain and jungle terrain favored by the Cuban revolution and adopted by Che Guevara. An interesting and fairly accurate portray of Guevara is included in the fiction series by W.E.B.Griffin.. He was captured after being turned in by a local Bolivian farm who grew weary of having his crops stolen. And executed by the Bolivian Army reportedly because one of his little band was having his way with a local farmers daughter. The brother seeking revenge. That's unconfirmed. Bolivia wanted him dead, The US counter insurgency people wanted him kept alive to show his continued string of failures Africa included.

    The cycle or circle itself states and calls for the use of terror tactics so a small underfunded and weak revolutionary movement could find success against a popular government. In the Switzerland of South America or Uruguay they came close to succeeding.

    It called for an action with a lot of blood, deaths, and local innocent meaning not in the government or the military people killed but EACH time using a different location, method, etc. so the government never knew what to defend. The government did have to suspend civil liberties in increasing numbers and that cycled through time and again gradually turned the populace against the defenders and in favor of the perpetrators.

    Marighella missed one point which is now in use world wide. The perpetrator did not have to be a rebel force but could be the government itself.

    Flash forward to TSA and the Patriot Act where the initiation of each action is based on manufactured or actual crisis points and a few other embellishments.

    What I'm getting at is what we also learned decades ago at Fort Bragg ....It's a more effective strategy ye olde cycle of repression when part of an in country political control movement. Add the word economic and look no further than the socialist left for your answer and never forget it's members are what I call the Government Part or Coalition and what now can also fairly be called a one party system of government.

    Terrorism for a long time has been more state sponsored around the world. We are not exempt.

    So far it's cost us the Bill of Rights, Civil rights and a good chunk of our monies buying power.


    How effective? You see any possible candidate of the three front runners who don't fit the picture? The success of this effort is laudible when measured by the amount of people that still babble about civil and constitutional rights and have yet to have a clue those are gone.

    The events of December 31st were all but ignored as the ability to arrest you or me or anyone was extended from suspicion of terrorism (no explanation or evidence required) to suspicion of supporting terrorism.

    Forget about probable cause, rights card, phone call, lawyer, judge, jury etc. Stay fat, dumb and happy until it's your turn.

    Ignorance is no excuse. You brought it on yourself. State sponsored terrorism at it's refined finest.

    Ready, and waiting....

    Don't Worry Be Happy you have one right left. Picking the flavor of the next cycle Clintonistas or Trumpeteros. I'm discounting Bernie at this point. In the end he'll rejoin the fold having prepared a flock of new recruits for the Protective Echelon. How do you like that choice of apples. Worms on the inside Red on the outside.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Dobrien 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    They are taught to hate us.
    It's mind control in the madrassa not to different from our current public Ed system.
    Join the crowd don't think for yourselves.
    Blame, be a victim , all know mentalities that lead to no personal responsibility and the destruction of civility.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I notice there are no objections. Where's the scrotes? Good enough to send us out to die. Good enough to turn your back on the country and the Constitution but not good enough to defend that decision. If I added up all those who claim the opposite then LBJ, Carter, Clinton, and Obama would never have been elected. That does not apply to everyone here. Then there is the despicable left and that includes the RINOs
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Quantity (body count) and goal of the massacres?
    I think there might be apples-and-oranges going on there...
    Did the farmers have a choice of convert (i.e., move) or die?
    I'm not trying to say other cults don't do wanton killing in the name of their 'gods.' Whether it was Christians or Muslims doing the beheading is horrible to me.
    Christians drowned alleged witches, too, and in the US, right? Doesn't mean any of them were justified in what they did.

    It's just when a religious cult advertises that it's their way or the highway and they're going to subjugate or kill anyone who argues or resists, it just occurs to me that their doctrine and tactics deserve a new examination and some changes to the 'way we do business with them' is in order.
    Hope that helps. I never said other cults never do shitty things. But like the atrocities of WWII, the cult's reasons and strategies (and "success rates") can make a BFDifference in how I think we should respond to them.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Dennis55 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    You're correct-I didn't address the point directly. I don't think they hate us for our culture UNLESS that includes the culture of being non-Muslim. I don't agree with Bush 43 that they hate us because of our freedoms.
    I believe on a thousand year time line they-in general hate us because we are infidels. Today-specifically-they hate us because as you said we are occupying the "holy sites.".
    I said they hated us before we occupied the sand box. I think events bear that out. The last 15 years and the occupation just stirred the hornets nest.
    As a flag waving patriot and a "radical for capitalism" I must say I do not hold to the neo-con view of occupation, policing the world, nation building and interventionism. As a non Christian, non Jew, non Muslim, non Hindu......I am not necessarily automatic pro Israel. I am not negative Israel, I just don't think we are helping to secure God's home field. I don't think we should have a military presence in countries that hate us. There's the other half of the Middle East. And there's two huge points here. That occupation includes the fore mentioned holy sites and I believe the oil. Now, as long as we are spending our time at home...... let's build the pipeline, drill in ANWAR, simplify the permitting process for nuclear plants. Become energy independent. We could "occupy" and "protect" a lot less of the world. Your Ron Paul reference is spot on .
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    as I said, their clergy ... and teachers ... tell them that
    their men are supposed to rule the world. . and they see
    this nation, the u.s., is not letting that happen as pre-ordained. -- j
    .
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by mia767ca 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    even the merchants of other countries flew the u.s. flag to keep the muslims away from them...
    today, they do not perceive Obama as having the backbone of Jefferson...
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by wmiranda 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Your position has been subject to countless hours of debate. But the simplest common denominator has been that Islam has been at war and conquering since its creation. And yes, fundamentalist Muslims don't like (or hate) our culture as well as any other infidels. Everything else is commentaries.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    More I think about it the more reasonable it sounds. After all it' isn't the State Departments field of dreams that gets to die when they screw up - unless Hillary is involved.

    Once you've got it up....keep it up and take care of your own first.

    Now if I thought Trump was serious about national defense and knowing what he really sounds like I would be sore tempted that route to get rid of socialism and then reinstate the Constitution. The rest have nothing to offer. And it's such a slow road to the much needed counter-revolution.

    throwing gas on the fire i remain
    sincerely yours
    The Cynical Realist.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    It's all about socialism vs the Muslim version and controling by any and all means possible. Two wrongs that leave no room for right. But the difference between then? Not much.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    How is your comment relevant to my question? I don’t think you directly address to issue I posed, which is do the Muslims hate us because of our culture? I think not.

    Some of this can be addressed by reversing positions and the US faces a nation which has over 900 military bases in more than 140 countries and that nation is constantly making war in the US and tell the US how it should run the country. What would be your recommended response? Something like the French Resistance during WWII? If yes, how does what ISIS is doing differ? Or, were the French wrong in WWII?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Bigotry? A bigot is a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions. What have I said to suggest I am not tolerant?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I don’t think you directly address to issue I posed, which is do the Muslims hate us because of our culture? I think not.

    Some of this can be addressed by reversing positions and the US faces a nation which has over 900 military bases in more than 140 countries and that nation is constantly making war in the US and tell the US how it should run the country. What would be your recommended response? Something like the French Resistance during WWII? If yes, how does what ISIS is doing differ? Or, were the French wrong in WWII?

    Cato has many well researched papers on the subject, but I think an excellent synthesis is Ron Paul’s very personally written and readable, book “Swords Into Plowshares — A Life in Wartime and a Future of Peace and Prosperity” Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity. It is in a Kindle Edition.



    Last week I visited the scene of massacre of beheading indigenous people on Tierra del Fuego, Chile, because they were in the way of farming. The murderers were Christian.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Jeffy must of missed some or we would not be facing them today. Yeah, go get those guilty children, save the women if virgins. The Treaty of Tripoli made clear that was about pirates and not religion.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Religion of alll types has been used to justify killing a lot of people over the ages. Currently the Shiite and Sunny muslims cant even keep from killing each other. Crazy. I loved Bill Maher's RELIGULOUS movie (about the ONLY thing I like that he has done). Its probably on netflix even.
    Reply | Permalink  

  • Comment hidden. Undo