Another Libertarian Argument Against Patents Bites the Dust

Posted by dbhalling 11 years ago to Philosophy
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Libertarians and Austrians, including such organizations as the CATO Institute, Von Mises, and the Wall Street Journal, have put forth a number of arguments against patents and intellectual property. These arguments include that ideas (an invention is not just an idea, but I will let that go) are not scarce and therefore patents are not real property rights, patents are monopolies, patents inhibit the growth of technology, patents require the use of force to enforce one’s rights, patents are not natural rights and were not recognized as so by Locke and the founders, among other arguments. I have discussed most of these arguments earlier and will put the links in below. One of their favorite fall back arguments is that patents limit what I can do with my property. For instance, a patent for an airplane (Wright brothers) keeps me from using my own wood, mechanical linkages, engine, cloth, etc. and building an airplane with ailerons (and wing warping). This according to the libertarian argument is obviously absurd. After all it is my property.


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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years ago
    Patents are essential incentive for the creative to bother creating... for investment to occur. Without those incentives we would be still using stone knives... The time frame for protection, in my mind, is the only thing worthy of even debating. Today the government puts so many roadblocks up, I feel that some will require even more time. Better to remove the roadblocks...
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    No they are not unless the inventor kept it a trade secret. And patent law does allow an independent developer to obtain the patent rights in that case.

    In every other case it is a second hander who has not done his due diligence and should not be rewarded for being lazy and taking credit for other people's work
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello jbrenner,
    Understandable. I am, like you, looking for the least painful political options... Most distressing.
    Regards,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    From a practical point of view it does not make sense to obtain a patent for a product that only has a few customers, unless these are very expensive products.

    One of the practical problems we have is that we do not have a good clearing mechanism for patent rights. I place the blame squarely on the anti-trust laws and leftist in the government. Good clearing mechanisms for patent rights were being developed in the US until the government started using anti-trust laws to attack these agreements.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Libertarians are definitely different than in Ayn Rand's time, but as dbhalling notes, recently some of today's libertarians are being inconsistent with what I would have expected. I'm beginning to feel like Ronald Reagan when he expressed dismay over how the Democrat Party had left him. Is the Libertarian Party abandoning me?
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Dear Khalling,
    Were you referring to me regarding Ted Cruz? I think so, but I'm not sure.
    I haven't heard him talk much about social conservatism, although he
    probably has. When called by political fundraising types, I have
    hung up on them after saying that the Republican party is neither
    libertarian nor conservative enough for me. I would consider myself
    personally conservative, but I would govern more as a libertarian
    (with the intellectual property exceptions noted by your husband).
    Ted Cruz's defense of the Constitution and on fiscal sanity
    has been consistently correct. I was surprised recently when
    you (Khalling) noted Rand Paul's stance on the immigration
    issue; your information was much appreciated, even if it wasn't
    what I thought Rand Paul had previously expressed.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    A farm has precise boundaries. The boundaries of inventions are more fuzzy (hence the plethora of "infringement" lawsuits).

    So are you morally obligated to search all the public records before or after you invent something? If before, then you haven't conceived of the invention yet and therefore cannot research it. If after, then the invention is something you thought of independently, and therefore it is a product of your mind.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    You're correct, but after spending $35,000 in lawyer fees (a lot in the 90's) we were happy to get off as well as we did.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello dbhalling,
    Good points. However, don't you think that today's Libertarians also seem to be of a slightly different strain than those of the days when Rand commented? I still see some problems, but I believe they are less severe. What say you?
    I would certainly agree on voting comfort level.
    Regards,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Ayn Rand was definitely in favor of patents, but by using her own ethical system, a strong case can be made that treating patents as property violates that same ethical system. The "second independent inventor" being entitled to the product of his/her own mind is a case in point.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry, if I was unclear.

    The market for any given product or service is going to consist of those who find value in that particular product or service. That market may be one individual or millions. If you have a product that sells to millions - especially if the margin is low - you may not necessarily care (or know) if a few of those millions make their own instead of buying yours, but you are still out that revenue. If on the other hand you only have a handful of customers, each one that builds their own instead of buying from you deprives you of a substantial portion of your business.

    Further, if you use another's idea without compensating them - regardless of whose materials get used in the construction - isn't that in reality theft of their intellectual property? That's the argument and the fine line.
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    You should have been able to use their logos as commentary and because you were not suggesting they were sponsoring your comic books.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 11 years ago
    I used to publish comic book biographies of rock stars. They were unauthorized because they told the truth rather than only what the subject wanted published. We were sued by some of the rock stars but they lost because it was judged that comic books were as legitimate literature as any book, and as such, was protected under the 1st amendment. We were not allowed to duplicate their logos without their permission. However, our books were copyrighted. In order to put out the book, it had to be researched, written, illustrated, colored and edited. The thought of anyone being able to duplicate our product without going to the expense, and hard work that it took, would be maddening, and would have kept us out of the business to start with. Without patents and copyrights there is no incentive to create the product.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    What I seem to be having trouble with is that it just makes sense. What is my incentive to share my ideas if I don't own them? I'll have to check that out. Thanks Db.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    you have recently been heard to say you are following Ted Cruz's remarks and policy/platform building which surprised me a little, considering his Conservative roots. However, he has quoted Rand several times, including in his filibuster. Have you heard him say anything about intellectual property rights, patents specifically-and is that a deal breaker for you in voting for a candidate?
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi J,

    Actually, yes I think they have changed. Their are some prominent Austrian economists and libertarians who have argued for IP. Some have argued that IP should last forever, which Rand and I disagree with.
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    It's a little more complicated than that. A patent gives the owner the right to exclude others from making, selling, using, and importing their invention. A patent does not give the owner the right to do any of these things with their invention however. It is a bit complicated, but I have a post on Edison and Swan that illustrates these points if you are interested.
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  • Posted by RobertFl 11 years ago
    Just because someone holds a patent, does not prevent you from implementing it. It only prevents/restricts you from selling it as your invention without compensating the original works owner. use the Wrights bros, example, You could build your own plane, just don't mass produce them as your work, unless you make significant improvement.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 11 years ago
    I was really surprised that Mises was against IP rights. I actually would have thought they would be consistent with Libertarian beliefs. I guess I need to start saying I am an Objectivist and not Libertarian.
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi Rich,

    Interestingly enough some prominent Austrians argue that IP should last forever. Rand and I disagree and she has a great analysis of this in Capitalism the Unknown Idea.
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    CBJ,

    Here is what Rand had to say about patents "Patents and copyrights are the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.” (Rand, Ayn, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, Signet, New York, 1967, p. 130)

    You might want to take a look at what she says in Capitalism the Unknown Ideal. While I have some very minor disagreements with her, for someone who did not deal with patent she nails it.

    You might remember that In Atlas Shrugged, a big part of the story is about Directive 10-289 and the theft of Rearden's metal.
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    The wikipedia article fails to look at the substantial body of evidence at the US Patent Office and confuses similar inventions. Did Swan and Edison invent the incandescent light bulb simultaneously? No they created two separate inventions. This sort of intellectual dishonesty has been used by leftists to suggest simultaneous inventions are common.

    Product of your mind - see trade secrets in the above comments. But if a patent has published, then no the invention is not the product of your mind. It is like someone squatting on someone else's farm saying I didn't know they were their. There are public records and your failure to research them does not make you innocent, it means your are either dishonest or stupid.
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  • Posted by 11 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Blarman,

    I am not sure I understand your second point. My assumption is that you mean if a second person uses the inventor's invention how are they depriving him of revenue or otherwise hurting them. Most infringers are not interested in producing one version for themselves and for most inventions no one would ever bother you if you did. But it you decided to sell the invention in the marketplace, then you are taking away the market from the inventor. The inventor is not able to recoup the cost of creating the invention, nor the large cost of getting it into the market, and the competitor is free loading off of their efforts.
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