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Colleges are Diversifying? Not Exactly

Posted by $ SarahMontalbano 9 years ago to Education
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Mamaemma and some others have told me about the experiences of their sons, daughters, and themselves in colleges due to their libertarian/Objectivist/non-conformational views. I will probably get in some troubles because of my views. Does anyone have experiences, advice, or comments to share related to this?

One quick note: Since I am not a subscriber to the Wall Street Journal, I wasn't able to access the article they based this off of. It seems to be interesting; the title is "The One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid" and the link is found in the article, for anyone who wants to read it.


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    "Try out some work experience in the field you think you may want"
    I strongly agree with this. It gets you on your path and off the path that the high schools, colleges, and other people set for you. It would be a scary path looking forward, but years later you'd wonder why you were scared at all.

    While you're working as a test technician or whatever you could take two classes at a time, possibly partially paid for by the employer's tuition reimbursement program.

    If you can't go this far, maybe you'd instead select a school that has a good co-op program that puts working in your field in some way early on. The rubber meeting the road of getting the work done is more important than people's viewpoints.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I was en route to being a Stadler. There was a time when I postdoc'd at Argonne National Laboratory, a State Science Institute if there ever was one. While I wanted to be like I am now, it took quite a while to find a place where I could practice my craft without compromising my values.

    I am not representative of the whole of FIT, but there are relatively few signs for Hillary or Bernie here. Most people here would vote for one of us for president, rather than any of the politicians.

    Everyone here does agree with this famous Ayn Rand statement:

    "Independence is the recognition of the fact that yours is the responsibility of judgment and nothing can help you escape it-that no substitute can do your thinking, as no pinch-hitter can live your life-that the vilest form of self-abasement and self-destruction is the subordination of your mind to the mind of another, the acceptance of an authority over your brain, the acceptance of his assertions as facts, his say-so as truth, his edicts as middle-man between your consciousness and your existence."
    Read more at: http://www.azquotes.com/author/12074-...
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    Posted by Zenphamy 9 years ago
    Suggestion (You asked): Spend a year or two in the real world, away from home if possible, before you start college. Try out some work experience in the field you think you may want (ie. Receptionist at a law firm or Engineering firm or etc to gain some exposure to what's involved in the day to day activities)

    Then go into college understanding that the real purpose of a college education is for you to learn how to learn, not what your professors try to ram down your throat, and that what you get from your education is really up to you--not just what you're taught.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Maybe it would be helpful to find examples of things that need to be taught from various viewpoints.

    I think of the world as facts and models. Science by its nature encourages people to find new evidence that overturns existing facts and models.

    When I hear about "balanced viewpoints" I think of these thought processes:
    1. The evidence shows homeopathy has no effect.. For balance, though, let's hear from the few scientists who think it does have an effect.
    2. Science can never be value neutral. It's always colored by observers' cultural biases. That has led to evil things like science being used as justifying slavery. In modern times, funding biases researchers against homeopathy and for corporate-produced medicines and foods. Since science cannot be value-netural, the universe in inherently unknowable. Let's not even try to find fundamental truths and instead pick based on good values that will lead to desirable conclusions.
    3. I'm trying to understand some policy issue, so I'll listen to rant from Mike Malloy and then a rant from Rush Limbaugh and pick the truth after hearing both sides.

    Maybe you can think of some examples where exposure to different viewpoints really is helpful.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I think for my future it's important to have the best technical knowledge. I would prefer to have a college with both, but if I do have to choose my priorities go to technical knowledge.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I think what MichaelAarethun means (correct me if I'm wrong) is that students should be exposed to a variety of viewpoints so that they can pick the one that they believe is true. In some cases they may not be right but it is ultimately up to them to see the truth. Rand said something to the effect of, We cannot force people to accept objectivism through religious teachings because that negates the principles involved. Each person must choose for him or herself.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    IMHO you have to trust your skeptical reasoning abilities and accept that people's various biases will sometimes work against you or in your favor. What you do, though, predominates over other people's biases / prejudices.

    If I'm right, the school having a good internship program could be 100 times more important than what people there think of your ideas things like cutting taxes.

    I'm approaching the question from an engineering standpoint. It's possible other subjects, like political science, may be a different world I don't understand. Also things may have changed since I went to school in the 90s. But I think, and certainly hope, that the issue from the article is a tempest in a teapot.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly. Of course I know the truth; but don't you think 4 years with a biased faculty could change it? Even if it doesn't, it could hurt my future career and grades merely for disagreeing.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    So are the classes that are drastically one sided and only teach or better yet propagandize the material for political purposes. It's well worth anyone's time to attend schools which offer objective and balanced viewpoints instead of only extremist views.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago
    "Does anyone have experiences, advice, or comments to share related to this? "
    I really think it's a non-issue. The important thing is the truth. All of this stuff in the article about finding merit with leftwing or rightwing "positions" in education is nonsense. "Positions." The very language refers to politics, not science. It's as if the author watched talking heads argue and thought that's how the world really works. Figuring things out and getting things working take hard work. The stuff in the article IMHO is irrelevant to education and research.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    No one else in the class of perhaps two hundred figured out I wasn't the right individual for that seat. Turns out about five percent plus of the seating chart was filled by chair warmers making a few bucks extra.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    however non traditional is not a bad way to go if iyou are a self starter and interested in education not getting ----see the Zappa quote. How did I make up for the lack of interchange of information? Sat in many classes where I wasn't registered. Called upon one time by seat number i delivered an ad hoc condemnation of Che Guevara finishing up with ...it helps to have been there. I hope the student who owned that seat number appreciated the grade.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago
    I used an off campus degree completion program. No idea how it works today. NY Board of Regents External Degree Program. some decades ago. U. of Oklahoma helped a lot with off campus study programs. I learned to pick and choose schools and professors for night campus programs. One day I received a diploma and a bill for $500 for graduation fees. The rest was up to me. The Masters was a bit dicier as it involved verbally defending a thesis. But they were most cooperative. I suggested schools close to my whereabouts at the time and was lucky to get a panel of three - all former professors.No slack though. They fed me through the grindstone for four hours. Never used it for anything more than my own education and enjoyment. Couldn't afford to take the pay cut.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years ago
    Where else would you expect to find the Robert Stadlers of the world besides at the State Science Institute? Most of them are at the universities that are beholden to their government funding agencies. If you want to find a university that is not statist, perhaps you should look for one that does not embody statist values. My university, for instance, gathers many of those who have choose NOT to be Stadlers.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years ago
    Clarification: The article discusses the hiring of right-leaning professors, not acceptance of students. Both are relevant topics to me.
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