Global cooling: Antarctic Sea Ice Coverage Continues To Break Records
Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 11 months ago to Science
Global cooling: Antarctic Sea Ice Coverage Continues To Break Records
What’s up with that? Square peg meet round hole…?
Also, I believe that ice sheets that are already “floating” on the sea can’t melt or break away and change sea levels. They are already displacing their weight on the sea. Volume works hand in hand. Ice floats because water's volume expands when frozen, unlike most other substances. I’m pretty sure I learned that in basic science class in elementary school…
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You could grow on me.
The reason northern hemisphere ice is melting and southern hemisphere ice is spreading is Milankovitch. Milankovitch was confirmed by ice cores taken in Greenland and taught when I was in school. It is scrupulously avoided in school now, probably because it makes the theory of anthropogenic global warming look ridiculous.
The things you mention are predicted by Milankovitch. Milankovitch has been verified by ice cores going back almost half a million years and other geologic records going back millions of years. The planet's tilt varies cyclically. We're at the point in the three cycles such that the northern hemisphere receives more than normal amounts of solar energy and the southern hemisphere receives less than normal amounts of solar energy. Thus glaciers in North America are retreating at the same time glaciers on New Zealand's south island are advancing and the advance of Antarctic pack ice is setting records. If this were due to excess CO2 they'd have to be moving in the same direction (due to gas diffusion, the thing that allows us to breath, no matter where on earth we are). Ever heard of Iceball Earth? The geologic record shows it's happened several times. Milankovitch shows the amount of sunlight we receive varies by almost 6% at the extremes of the cycles. Milankovitch isn't a theory. It's proven, geometric fact.
Decades ago, before anyone had heard of it, Maggie Thatcher used the theory of CO2 caused global warming to drop the hammer on the British coalworkers, but later said she regretted contributing to the hoopla, since she didn't really consider it a threat.
And yet, the kool-aid drinkers will still swallow the "party line".
Good point. The oceans are connected and water will seek its own level. I have been vacationing in the Florida Keys for decades. The little islands I visit were supposed to be under water by now according to the experts of a few decades ago. So far... nothing appreciable or extraordinary...
Respectfully,
O.A.
I quite agree. We must explore space and find a way to plant our seed out there. What has happened to our space program and particularly what has happened recently with Russia is very troubling.
Respectfully,
O.A.
I have no problem with private use of alternative energy. I believe we should explore and develop all alternatives. I object to government suppression of what works. I object to pseudo science pushed on all of us and the propaganda from those that think oil and other traditional power sources can't be used efficiently and clean enough. As far as the "peak oil' story goes, it was based on our capabilities to get at the easy to access reserves known at the time with the technology of the time. Since then our new methods and discoveries, thanks to better technology, have created doubt about how long we will be able to use these resources and how much there is. We were told we would be out of oil by now many decades ago. Since then we have discovered vastly more retrievable resources. I started buying gas for my car when it was around 56 cents a gallon and I remember filling my father's car at 26 cents per gallon.
Auto emissions have been reduced at least 95 percent since the seventies. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/05-auto...
There is also some interesting work being done that purports that the earth is constantly making oil; that it is not a finite resource at all; that it is being replenished. this is why some are going back to old abandoned fields in some locals and finding once dry wells are reproducing. Investigate "Abiotic Oil."
I don't know the truth of this theory but one thing is certain; The oil companies can rob us and jack up the prices if they have us convinced we are about to run out….
Abiotic or Abiogenic oil:
Some interesting sites… Again, I do not know the answer and it appears, neither do all of the experts. Though some claim to and you can find sites that say otherwise. I believe the science is unsettled enough to have doubt.
http://www.viewzone.com/abioticoil.html
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/on-e...
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questio...
Even Huffington has produced articles…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-j-...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-j-...
Solar panel manufacturing is also not without harmful side effects, neither are batteries even if they are recyclable.
We may not need to destroy our economy to avoid man made disaster.
Respectfully,
O.A.
Are there no lakes, ponds or other landbound bodies of liquid water in the world?
It is not inevitable that the glaciers will run directly into the ocean.
If they're really so worried about globular warming, start a massive campaign to Terraform Mars, Venus, maybe some of the moons of Jupiter... build some L5-type habitats in orbit, closed ecosystems... freaking learn how ecologies work *before* tinkering with our only life-support system.
It's been very interesting to read this ongoing debate, I must give you an unqualified win. Your opponent gave away his mistaken approach to the subject when he stated, "I'm saying that the "deniers" of this stuff tend to be young kids that are still wet behind the ears, that don't understand the science very well, or small things that will have dramatic effects on our lives." No, it's the youngsters that are daily being brainwashed by the liberal progressives.
Fred Speckmann
mailto:commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
You are correct, Columbus was wrong, but only about how far it was to reach India, but that's only because he ran into a gigantic landmass. his principle of the earth being round and being able to reach India by sailing west was correct.
Fred Speckmann
mailto:commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
My dad was Mobil's first environmental engineer, and his job at that time was to ensure that what the politicians wanted was actually something that could be achieved. They could not afford to let the politicians draft legislation that no one could comply with.
Environmental responsibility has its place, and frankly it doesn't cost all that much if done properly. It is just this global warming (CO2 is a pollutant?! Cough! Cough! on my own exhalation!) The engineer's oath interestingly is to the general public, not to him/herself, the company, the client, etc., and is therefore incompatible with Galt's oath.
Ooh, I want a piece of that class-action suit; imagine the take from suing nearly 7 billion people for breathing...
I could have used teraseconds and megaanums, but nobody'd be able to figure them out. The basic idea is in short time periods our "weather" is affected greatly by solar forcing, but over much longer time periods our "climate" is determined by Milankovitch Cycles. We have no means of affecting the sun's levels of activity nor our distance from the sun nor the tilt of our planet. Our weather and climate will change, whether we wish them to or not.
Agreed... we damn well better have moved elsewhere. The Earth is too small and volatile a basket for us to have deposited all of our eggs.
"". . . Then, beginning in the 1950s, we began to clean up our environment. Household coal furnaces gave way to centralized electric heating; and pollution was confined to the power plant areas, instead of belching from every chimney in the city. The famous pea-soup fogs of London disappeared."
....
""Yes, my friends." Lutenist was walking back and forth in front of the piano. "The elimination of air pollution did not start with the Greens. It started with the Big Power Companies back in the fifties-—as a by-product of their program of clean, centralized electrical power generation."
I'm not citing that as authoritative. It's just until I read it years ago I hadn't thought of it as the real source for pollution reduction in the U.S.
This is why the EPA is evil:
---
""I've lost track of my cup," Alex said.
"In the old days," Sherrine whispered in Alex's ear, "there would have been plastic or styrofoam cups."
"Nonbiodegradable plastic or styrofoam cups," said Degler, appearing out of nowhere.
"Bullshit," said Sherrine. "Plastics are recyclable. Shred it and melt it and make more. The fact that no one bothered gave plastic a bad rep."
"Well, not quite," Degler said, fingering his beard and grinning. "There are EPA rules that forbid the recycling of certain plastics. The styrofoam used by fast-food chains was chemically recyclable; but the EPA forbade it because"-—he gave an exaggerated shudder-—"because it had once touched food."
"Yeah, and they replaced the stuff with coated paper, that was also nonbiodegradable and nonrecyclable. So the rules had zero impact on the environment and the landfills . . . And why are you laughing, Tom?"
"What if it was on purpose?"
"What do you mean? "
...
Degler glanced left and right, and leaned forward. Everyone else instinctively leaned toward him. "I meant, what if it was on purpose? There was a company in California that bought chemical wastes from other companies; processed the waste and broke it down; and sold the end products as feed stock. Closed loop recycling. The state EPA shut them down."
"Why?" asked Alex.
Degler eyed him, and again glanced conspiratorially around the room. "Because the EPA rules required that chemical wastes be put in fifty-five-gallon drums and stored."
"Why, that is pomyéshanniy," Gordon said. "If we did so on Freedom, would soon die. Cannot afford to waste waste. Is too valuable."
If the Downer Greens were serious about recycling and waste reduction, Alex mused, they should be clamoring to communicate with the stations. Who-—on Earth or off-—knew more about the subject than the Floaters. It isn't just our quality of life, it's our lives.
"Exactly," said Degler. "So why do so many environmental regulations wind up, harming the environment? I say, what if it's on purpose?"
"Can't be," said someone in the crowd. "What purpose?"
"Yeah, who would gain?"
"The Babbage Society? "
"No, the Greens. The Greens would gain job security," said someone else.
"Job security how? They're pledged to clean things up."
"No they aren't," said Tom Degler with a grin. "They're pledged to advocate rules whose apparent purpose is to make someone else clean things up."
"That's right. There's a difference. The rules only require actions, not results."
"I have a question," said an elderly fan. "Why did the Greens become so popular back in the '90s, which was after the worst pollution had been already cleaned up? None of you kids remembers the old days, when coal smoke blanketed every city and the Cuyahoga River caught fire."
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Actually, simple concepts, but a complex system. Melting glacial ice, if allowed to flow into the sea would cause ocean levels to rise and affect seawater salinity. Melting pack ice will have no effect on ocean levels.
Re the Sacramento Delta, ask landowners in the Delta area about their water wells. Is their water level dropping? Have they had to deepen wells? Subsidence can be caused by removing large volumes of fluid from porous underground formations. If Delta landowners are pumping fresh water out of the ground faster than it can be replenished then they might be causing the subsidence that allows salty water to encroach on formerly fresh water environments. On the other hand, plate tectonics is an ongoing process. Land levels are rising and falling all around the world independent of sea levels. Over the past few decades I've seen no sea level change measured at my data points. So, if sea levels are rising, my data points are rising at the same rate; possible, but unlikely.
So I remain in Coventry.
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