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Do Politicians Lie to us about war?

Posted by Esceptico 9 years ago to Politics
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In his book “War is a Lie,” second edition (April 2016), David Swanson claims he presents a thorough refutation of every major argument used to justify wars, drawing on evidence from numerous past wars, with a focus on those that have been most widely defended as just and good. In essence, in his well-documented book, he says the people in power lie to us about why we should go to war, then change the lie during the war, and change it yet again after the war, all to justify the war in question. He illustrates how politicians provoke wars and why.

The United States now has a military presence in more than 140 countries, with more than 900 bases, and has had its military involved in military operations in 174 countries within the last few years.

Assuming all this to be true for the purposes of discussion, what should the Objectivist response be when questioned about the presence of the United States military in foreign lands (for example, in the South China Sea, in the Baltic Sea, and off the coast of Iran where two of our vessels went more than 20 miles inside Iranian waters) which appear to act as a provocation to other countries to go to war with the US?


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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, regarding the three attacks named, to get the answers must look at what the US did to provoke what is portrayed as vicious attacks by "the enemy" on each occassion. 9/11 is interesting because Bush the Lesser had been planning to invade Iraq for almost a year before 9/11 and 9/11 served just the excuse he needed to do so---Although he does say he did it because God told him to.

    Is Isreal a decent ally? I don't know. But decent or not their fight is not our fight and we should not be involved. The freedom of the seas is not the issue in the South China sea, the issue is around artificial islands built by China.

    I never said we should never go to war. I said Swanson presents an excellent case that the public has been lied to as to why the US went to war and the same reasons (updated) have been given since President Adams (our 2nd president) because the lies work. the populace believes the lies. Interestsingly, the lise change from those given before the wars, those given during rthe wars, and those given after the wars. Swanson writes an excellent book.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years ago
    Have we been attacked? Or not? Were we at-
    tacked on 11 Sept 2001? Or not? Was this coun-
    try attacked on 7 Dec 1941? Or not?
    Is Israel a decent ally? Or not?

    Do we need the freedom of the seas to trade
    with allies? Or not?

    I do not approve of the way the Viet Nam
    War was conducted, nor am I in favor of
    the military draft. It might have made
    more sense either to attack Cuba, or
    just leave both alone, as Ayn Rand seemed
    to imply, in an article she wrote in the '60's.
    But that does not mean we should never
    go to war.

    That said, I think politicians certainly
    do lie. And American young men should
    not be used as cannon fodder.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I have been trying to study Chile a little. Do you have any recommendations on places to resettle? I want to live on the coast in retirement. I love ocean fishing too...tuna, etc. I understand the trout/salmon in the south is world-class.
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I think you are wrong about Lincoln. I suggest reading books by DiLorenzo for a history of Lincoln (there are other books, but his are more pointed and not overrun with footnotes). But, I think you are right overall that we should mind our own business and be the beacon (by example) to the world.
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, we have "managed a Hitler or Mussolini" in the form of many of our residents. The history of the Imperial States of America well demonstrate this. As to French restaurants, it seems to me your anti-French bias trumps the experience of I have had of often going to France for the past 40 years. Perhaps we go to different restaurants.

    All this aside, an open mind must constantly ask itself: “Could I be wrong?” And, contrary to what we were all taught in school, is it possible the US is the great instigator of war, not peace?
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  • Posted by jsw225 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    See the reply above to Circuit Guy regarding WMD's.

    Was there justification for the Strikers to go and rescue John Galt? Or should the proper objectivist only rescue himself?

    Don't think on it too hard, it's only a point made half in jest. Ultimately there's good and evil in the world. And the good people don't always have the means to beat evil. While we can and should offer help, if the people are unwilling to help themselves, we'll get nowhere. For example, in Vietnam I believe that the South Vietnamese truly did want to be free (ignoring the bungling of the war on the Politician's fault). In Iraq, most of the people only want to force their view of Islam on others. I.E. They didn't want to be totally free, only free from sunni, shiite, or kurdish control / views on themselves.
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  • Posted by jsw225 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Various chemicals, including Mustard Shells, and Nerve Agents: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/20... Furthermore, we witnessed many 18 wheelers travel into Syria, never to return, and suddenly Assad now has Chemical Weapons himself, when he didn't before?

    Anyway, it's interesting to me that they decided they were losing the argument about WMD's, and started lying in order to keep the war going.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 9 years ago
    we would be better off with just a solid anti-missle defense and leak-proof border...beyond that, we should leave the rest of the world alone..our nation freed millions of people all over the world when Lincoln declared all slaves in the U.S. were free...we cannot go door-to-door around the world and clean up their mess...if we can create a capitalist society here,we can be the best beacon of freedom and liberty to those who seek that reality...it is most benevolent way to spread liberty and freedom around the world...it will cost a fraction of what we currently spend and will cost the least suffering to U.S. military men and women...and people around the world.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    There's a real risk of the US failing similar to the Roman Republic. It's possible, although I don't think so, that something that historians will view as the crossing of the Rubicon has already happened. It depends no how things play out. But I just don't see a president turning on the US. It would make the premise for a dark action movie, but I think if the US goes to the devil will be under more mundane problems like debt and corruption.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    "hey did find WMD's, but only much later in the war AFTER they had conceded that there were none."
    What did they find? I thought they only found some missiles that could exceed the range allowed by an agreement Iraq had entered and some UAVs that could potentially be used to deploy biological or chemical weapons if they had any, which they did not. Can you find a link to an article showing evidence bona fide WMDs in Iraq just prior to the '03 invasion and occupation?
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years ago
    War is the ultimate expression of politics. A graphic example that jumps out is what happened with the breakup of Yugoslavia. When Serbia decided it was their duty to replace the amalgamated state with "Greater Serbia" by conquering all of its neighbors, Europe stood by, wringing its collective hands, wailing that the U.S. was obligated to intervene. Even though there were prominent figures in the U.S. who pointed out that the conflict involved no national interests, President Bush 41 let himself be talked into interfering.

    I'm often reminded of Chayefsky's script for "The Americanization of Emily," outstandingly delivered by the late James Garner:
    "You American-haters bore me to tears, Miss Barham. I've dealt with Europeans all my life. I know all about us parvenus from the States who come over here and race around your old cathedral towns with our cameras and Coca-Cola bottles... Brawl in your pubs, paw your women, and act like we own the world. We over-tip. We talk too loud. We think we can buy anything with a Hershey bar.

    I've had Germans and Italians tell me how politically ingenuous we are. And perhaps so. But we haven't managed a Hitler or Mussolini yet. I've had Frenchmen call me a savage because I only took half an hour for lunch. Hell, Miss Barham, the only reason the French take two hours for lunch is because the service in their restaurants is lousy. The most tedious lot are you British. We crass Americans didn't introduce war into your little island. This war, Miss Barham, to which we Americans are so insensitive, is the result of 2,000 years of European greed, barbarism, superstition, and stupidity. Don't blame it on our Coca-Cola bottles. Europe was a going brothel long before we came to town."
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I can't imagine such a scenario. I would probably still used the defected official's title, although I'm not sure if that's the accepted practice.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    FDR was certainly not the icon that Dems put him up to be. He gave a good speech and Hollywood loved him, though.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    It only begins to make sense when one views the matter as a means to an end with the end being power and control.
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Kill people and break things sure sounds counter-productive to me, yet it seems to inspire people to go do more of it.
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    From the information I have read, there were no WMD in Iraq. But, assuming for the moment there were, does that (under Objectivist principles) justify starting a war?
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