Obama revises Oath of Citizenship

Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 10 months ago to News
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If you aren't willing to defend what you've fought to obtain, did you really earn it?


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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I do seek that. No arguments.

    Not likely to see it in my lifetime, but since there is no such thing as a legitimate "state", I've got to hope and try. :-)
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Riiiiiiight.

    Because individual liberty, and freedom from slavery of the state, is tooootally a leftist stance.

    plonk
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "I completely understand the world I live in. It is not a world of freedom, in any way shape or form."

    You seek for the freedom of anarchy. You will have to make such of your own accord. Good luck with that.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Very good recitiation of leftist viewpoints without any rhyme or reason. Enjoy your slavery it's obviously a personal choice.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have never said "I am exempt".

    I have said that I reject the moral premise, and I consider anyone or any entity (ie, state) which defends the premise/practice as -- themselves -- immoral.

    I completely understand the world I live in. It is not a world of freedom, in any way shape or form.

    But what I won't do is pretend that it has any legitimacy. I'll suffer through the indignity of slavery to the state while railing against it at every opportunity, hoping to create some future critical mass where - yes - such immoral states can be overturned and replaced with something that respects freedom.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Should it be an opt in and coupled with that all important items based on the same age. Voting, full adulthood, citizen ship option and opt out/ draft registration.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Birthright citizenship is not an opt-in system, but rather an opt-out system. No matter how much you want the inverse to apply, it simply isn't Reality, never has been, and never will be. If you want your ideal, create your own country and form your own laws about such. If your ideal means that much to you, as I've said at least three times, advocate to change the laws. But your argument that you are exempt from such simply because you say so is a specious argument.

    "I strive for better. I strive for freedom."

    As do we all. So get the laws changed to match your ideal. Until that happens, however, you are stuck with what we have - like it or not.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You're still proceeding from the premise that you were entered into an agreement without your consent, and that this is somehow "legitimate", and that you then need to demonstrate how you have extricated yourself from an agreement you never consented to in the first place.

    That is not how "consent" works.

    You're arguing "what the status quo" is, and that's fine, but I'm arguing how things should be. The "status quo" is also that we're all basically required to live for others by paying taxes, etc., etc. If that's the life you enjoy, knock yourself out.

    I strive for better. I strive for freedom.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, I can and do affirm my previous statement. Birth citizenship is an opt-out arrangement - not an opt-in as you want to claim. All the government has to do is look at my birth certificate and say "Yup, he was born in the US" to make its case. Then I would have to show that I renounced my citizenship and became a citizen of another nation to swing the balance back to my side. Further, I would have to show that I never declared on my income tax forms to be a citizen (meaning I couldn't have filed a 1040) AND I would have to be prepared to contest voting records or be guilty of fraud.

    You want to affirm only a world of positive/active assent. That's not how birth citizenship works and never has and that's why your argument is void. Until you positively assert your non-citizen status, you are subject to the rules and regulations AND afforded the privileges of being a US citizen. Can the rules be changed? Sure - through official and legally binding means agreeable to both parties. So take your disagreement up with your representatives and get the laws changed. Or renounce your citizenship if this issue is such a big deal. Those are both paths I would recognize as being logically consistent.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You can't say both "I do believe in consent", and "because I am an American citizen by birth that I similarly take on the responsibilities of such"

    Those two statements are contradictory. You were born into that "responsibility" as opposed to having consented to it, and it is your burden (as someone born into that responsibility) to distance yourself from that responsibility rather than the state's burden to demonstrate that you have accepted it.

    In a world of consent, it would be the state's burden to demonstrate that you had consented to the responsibility.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Only I, via informed consent and agreement, can bind myself to any sort of contract, social or otherwise. I have not done so."

    If you have voted, you have accepted them. If you have ever paid taxes, you have accepted them. Read the fine print. You deceive yourself to believe otherwise. And as I have pointed out, you can feel free to deny your citizenship as an American and take back what you think has been stolen from you.

    "If you don't believe in that fundamental concept..."

    I do believe in consent and I recognize that because I am an American citizen by birth that I similarly take on the responsibilities of such. You attempt to deny such responsibilities by having a foot on both sides of the fence: the one side which entitles you all the protections of an American citizen and the other that allows you to deny taking on the responsibilities of such a citizen. What I am pointing out is that neither can new immigrants nor existing citizens deny the responsibility to protect this nation that is an ongoing and fundamental responsibility of citizenship in this nation and has been so from its founding.

    Could you exercise your right of Association and join a nation which did not require you to protect it? Absolutely. The terms of citizenship for the United States of America, however, are quite clear in affirming the opposite. You are welcome to protest, pretend, and posture. It will not change Reality one iota.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I didn't "do it to myself". I was born into slavery. My only option is to trade one slave-master for another, and attempt to buy my freedom.

    You sit here, defending the slave-masters as though they are morally right, making yourself a part of their crime.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You still believe that one person or entity can bind another person to an agreement against their wishes. No person, corporation, or government has that moral authority.

    You're basically defending statism, and mob-rule theft. You are an enemy of freedom.

    I have nothing further to say to you at this point. There's nothing productive to be gained so long as you persist in your belief in the superiority of the state over its slaves.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You did it to yourself. No one else's fault. You wanted to play for free and one day the bill came due. "The price yiou pay for playing stupid." Follows the plaintice pitable cry "But How Could The Government let this happen?" Dumb Ass. The government MADE it happen and you got suckered. The fun part is if it happens to be the draft as one example. No one wants you. I'm not even sure Canada wants you. For sure the military doesn't want you. You don't like the rules of the playground the answer is simple. Don't Play. Which brings us back in circular progrtessive liberal argument format to ...WHY did you not take any of the outs offered when you had the chance?
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because it is the basic truth when you deal in reality instead of fairy tales. That's the basics of objectivism not sucking up the benefits and hoping you weren't one day going to get caught.

    So let's say you complied with that laundry list but one day wanted to do something such as travel. Right about that time the draft was put back into effect. OR your parents went broke and you looked in vain for real scholarships and went aftere a student loan. Now tell me about your moral values. You did it to yourself by playing stupid and saying it will never happen to me. So now we've disposed of your moral values let's get back to reality. No you may not have a student loan nor a government job you failed to comply at age 18 with the Universal Military Conscription Act and guess what ....we're enforcing those provisions. You have the right to remain silent.....

    The moral or ethical check comes after Law Two of Objecftivism. When the facts are ascertained, tested, checked and determined to be useful or not useful what's called the ground truth.

    THEN comes your values or lack thereof. The Premise that's false is you didn't study objectivism nor moral philosophy. You may not enter into a commercial contract prior to age 18, The government did it for you at birth. And you agreed at any of those points I mentioned along the way.

    Unless you have a Daddy or a Rabbi in the system....That out is always available for the right sort. Members of the ruling class fo rexample.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ah, the old "you stayed on my playground so you consent to being bullied" defense. How quaint.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Your entire argument is based on a false premise: That anyone else can enter me into an agreement that I then have to somehow extricate myself from. Jefferson and Madison couldn't do it. Neither could my parents.

    Only I, via informed consent and agreement, can bind myself to any sort of contract, social or otherwise. I have not done so.

    If you don't believe in that fundamental concept, I'm curious why you hang around on a site whose moral principles are predicated on that basic truth?
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One of the best articles written on the subject ouside of Hillsdale and despite dballing attempted neutering smashes his thinking into subjective oblivion my apologies to dhalling who must be someone entirely different given the non answer to the hurricane test.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    ANYTHING? How about it 's the the number one reason for the federal government to exist and the only substantive job it's given. National Defense. It's laid out in excruciating detail.

    Your chances to act otherwise came at a. before age 18. After 18 and before being drafted. When asked to register to vote. In carrying out the act of voting. When told to pay federal taxes and in the act of paying federal taxes. in any and all observance and compliance of any federal law, custom, or regulation or use of any of the federal government support systems auch as student loans, In using the federal courrts and in all courts the civil rights provided by the the Constitution in school, as an employer or business owner, in travel using a US Passport.

    At each of those steps you gave consent and only two of them sere involuntary. Income Tax and the Universal Military Conscription Act or draft. Even then you could have registered as a conscientous objector.

    At any point prior to being drafted you could have objected with your feet and left the country and applied for citizenship in a place more to your choosing. Had the receiving country agreed to accept you in it's program for citizenship all would be fine and honorable providing the IRS approved. No one else much cared unless you were a litsted felon and even one that did not pay something as simple as child support would set off trip wires at the federal or state levels. Assuming you were from Oregon anyway.

    The taxes were based on what you lived on, who provided it, did it count as taxable income which is due and payable no matter where in the world you lived or how earned. Another trap. but for you legal.

    Country Two allows citizen you are not longer the problem of the USA except if yiou owe back taxes from before the granmt of citizenship.

    Parrents could have explained all this and so could your teachers if they gave a shit. But probably not.

    Any red flags would arise when asking for a VISA to visit the USA.

    All of this best down prior to age 18. Refusal to sign up for the draft is a jailable, finable felonly offense under federal law. Look it up yourself. It's openly posted.

    How closely enforced? Depends on how hard up the slavemasters are in manning their protective echelon and their property part of which ....is ......you.

    If you don't like it . Tough. No one cares.

    :Least of all the left wing that are the sole supporter of the military draft laws left in the country. They want their cannon fodder ready when needed. To the military you are just a big waste of time and good air and food.

    That leaves the possibility, in future, of joining the Protective Echelon. the Directorate of Internal State Security and becoming one of the Fascists you sought to escape.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, the ACLU has not always behaved consistent-
    ly. I was thinking about the kind of utopia I would
    have, starting from scratch.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I care not what the slave masters say. They're the slave masters, they'll say anything to justify their authority and ownership over their property.

    "Hurricane season"?
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