recovery will also be a process not an event

The US' destruction is not a sure thing.

The U.S.' destruction was well under way long before we were born. Destruction of a thing as large as the United States of America is a process, not an event.

Your mindset will destroy the US. It is delusion to think that a new party will get people to think. Ideas must first be introduced into a place where they will hear them. No one but libertarians will listen to a libertarian. That has been proven by plenty of us. We have to speed from an accepted platform. If this was 1920 it would be different, but its not. People need to wake up and face the reality of where we are and what our options are right now. You can choose between Obama and Romney, there is no other choice. To think otherwise is delusional.

We also can't afford a Bush III either. On one hand, if Romney comes in and doesn't do the right things-the economy fails and people say "see, capitalism doesn't work!" On the other hand, until the Republican party takes fiscal conservatives and Libertarians seriously, it's important to have a Libertarian Party. I think about the tea party's ability to influence the party. It has energized people within the party but the establishment loathes them. it will be interesting and terrifying to see if Romney just campaigned to the original tea party or will govern with its principles.

"Right now" is a delusion. Your mindset keeps you stuck in the two-party tyranny, cycle after cycle after cycle.

I think what is influencing Romney has much more to do with what is happening in party than out of party.

If you split the conservative/individual/constitutional/libertarian vote up we get people like Obama in office. We cannot afford that right now.

I disagree. If we look at the Socialist Party platforms of the 20's and 30's, they never won a Presidential election. However, their platforms eventually were adopted by the country in passed laws. The Republican Party has been very overhanded in telling us who our candidates can be. A strong libertarian voter turnout really has influence in how Romney might act as President. Clinton at least pretended to be middle of the road governing in response to Perot running.The deficit was cut..

If the NORML lobby puts Johnson over the 5% threshold this year, I still won't see Johnson in office in 2012, but by 2016, you and a few tens of millions more will clamor for him.

I recoil from the thought of either another Republican *or* Democrat this cycle or next. Both have been, are, and will continue to be monumental failures.

Well vote for Johnson and you will get more of Barack, vote for Mitt you may or may not get some movement in the right direction. You will not see Johnson in the presidents office, so you still get the tyranny under one of them anyway, one way just leaves you with a chance to move away from the tyranny while the other leaves no hope.

Enjoy the tyranny under Barack or Mitt Romama.

Disagree with your fact and myth. Common sense would tell you that nay libritarian candidate will pull more from the republicans than from the democrats. Not a Myth basic common sense. You will pull from the party you have more in common with more heavily

Myth: Gary Johnson's Libertarian Party campaign draws votes away from the Republican party primarily.

Fact: Gary Johnson's campaign draws votes from both Republican and Democratic parties fairly evenly. His campaign also draws votes from Independents, and from the otherwise too disillusioned to vote at all.

Exactly.

As I thought about this, I think that a true third party would simply weaken the republican party to the point where both the third party (likely libriatarian) and the republicans would fail, leaving only large government progressives in offices.

The TEA party movement has given us an increase of representation in the senate and the house of people that will stand with Ron Paul rather than against him. I thin k if we were to all put our energies there, perhaps we can swing the party to a small government focus. I think it the best shot we have.

Interesting, food for thought... Don’t you believe a viable threat from a third party would force the two main parties to change perhaps more swiftly? Perhaps that is the effect of the TEA party. They are not a true third party but have the same effect. If I extrapolate correctly, you are suggesting that, that is the best approach, non official parties, advocacy groups pushing the traditional parties… Something to consider…
O.A.

I need to update this, as I have thought more about it, I do not agree with creating a third party. It must be a change in platform of the republican party.

A third party will simply give the totalitarians more ammunition in the form of big government canidates winning by large landslides. They would spin it as a sing that most people can see that capitalism does not work and we need to move to socialism. It would do nothing but embolden those that are the worst in our society.

So what is your plan --- to NOT vote?

Also I agree with a push for a third party after this election. It is likely going to fail again, but we should be making all the pushes we can from every direction.

It is key that it take place after this election and not during it. Nothing can be left to chance as in 4 more years it wont be 47% that a man like Romney knows he cannot get to vote for him, it will be well over 50% and we will never have another chance to get anyone in that is not a welfare state supporter again.

Where do we end up with an Obama 2nd term. We will be completely within a Totalitarian state and likely within a Marxist state. The whole world is lost and we have 1000 years before freedom might get another chance.

Romney is not the guy I would love to have, but he is no Bush, no Clinton and no Obama. He may actually reduce the size of government, particularly if we get some good congressmen and women to push him that direction. He will need to be pushed by those in congress that are small government constitutionalists (Mike Lee for an example) but I think he can be pushed that way.

If Romney does not win it will be the end of US as place with a chance of having the freedom we all deserve with the only option being a civil war.

That to me is not worth the money, and not the way forward.

How about another shrub? Another 911. The epitome of corporate welfare plans via war based on a pack of lies. Too tired of sleazy, dishonest scum sitting in the presidents' chair (for nearly all of the past 50 years.) The agenda of the 2 parties is opposition to liberty and reason. A vote for either of them is a vote for slavery.

I've had this very same argument previously in the Gulch. NO, it is NOT worth the risk...now is not the time. (I'd love a 3rd party candidate, but it just isn't possible this election.) One Ross Perot distraction was enough. I voted for him and I learned the hard way.

And the Republicans might need to be labeled the American Fascist Party or the long time conservatives cant see the distinction either. Voting for the lesser of two evils brings slavery. the bad decisions started long before 1920's but I understand your point. But making the same mistake again will not bring a different result.

To all of the Johnson supporters, is it worth 4 more years of Obama to get Johnson 5%of the vote? I do not think so. As said here, we need to undo bad policy decisions that began in the 1920's. that will not happen overnight. The democrat party needs to be rebranded Socialist Party USA. America needs to see what they are actually voting for. Unfortunately, for many voters, without that label they can not see the distinction.