Yes she did, Rob, and I intend to, also (if there's anything left). After all, I've been paying in for over 45 years. Aren't we entitled to our own money, or must we use it just to support everyone else?

Congress convenes in the Capital, and all Federal buildings (as you pointed out) are required to operate within the OSHA standards.

This began with your thinking that Congress was a "business".

Congress is NOT the definition of a business.

But it doesn't matter, because it is not exempt from the OSHA guidelines, or the handicap laws for that matter. Federal buildings are the first to meet those standards....

Hence: 'You were joking? Right???'

I think it started right here.

When Pan Am folded, the pilot's pension fund went with it. There was no government 'relief' effort as I recall...not even the demand for one.

The retired autoworkers have Social Security to fall back on, and it is theirs for the taking. None of them would be destitute. There would probably be some adjustments in their lifestyles, but who doesn't make necessary changes when they end their working life?

Rob: Your thread is the first I've found on the site. I'm really not trying to pick on you, it's just that your arguments and reasoning stand out so far from others.

But you come from some conceptual positions that leave out so much, I hope not purposely.

Health insurance is gambling just like going to Vegas and sitting down at a table. It's never been (until comparatively recently) seen as a necessity. If you'll review a little history, you'll find that it didn't even exist until the 30's or so. Before that time, people took care of their own costs, or relied on private charity medical help, such as Catholic Hospitals or the family doctor.
Govt thought it a good idea after expanding income tax to all of our incomes, so tax exemptions for health insurance for employees was put into place. Thus began the growth in prices and compensation to medical providers and the growth of group Medical/Health insurance companies.

And now instead of just spreading the individual cost throughout the group insured, the Govt now is going to force those that don't want to gamble, but rather cover their own costs, to pay for it.

Your reply proves my previous point regarding the violent ingnorant aspects of human nature and why a pure market is absolute fantasy.

whoa. Reality is just fine, thank you. Be gone, before somebody drops a house on you

Amen to that. Maybe after that first and second step, we might start govt on a two step country dance around the floor till they're wore out.

If you have read and understood Ms. Rand's various works an arguement is not necessary. My point was not slanderous. It was merely a statement of fact based on her novels. Reality sucks for those in this group that continually live in her books rather than take action to change our society.

Your point?

We don't use mindless collective think in here. We use our brains to determine our opinions. I do not always agree with what read, but will use logic in my reasons for not. I don't find that in your comments here. Sorry.

welcome L. it is easier to slander than to make a reasoned argument. Your point is meaningless unless you back it up

welcome Zen. I agree with the murkiness, but again, it is a govt decision and policy. If the govt were out of running the economy, that would be a huge first step. Second,reduce the size and scope of the Federal Budget.

He does not understand the meaning.

"That is a govt decision and policy, not a companies"
The difficulty with that conclusion is that it doesn't include the amount of 'companies' influences on government decision and policy. Just take a look at the Senate's Immigration Bill.

Other than that, I find a lot to agree with, if I may as a newbie.

Rand definitely take a hard-line view on many things - especially religion. This is hard for many to swallow, including me. But her economic theory is sound.

BTW - if you really want to go into interpretation of the Bible, let's get down to the one _I_ believe - the King James version - not some televangelist's version or new translation. And you might be interested or not, but Christianity is wholly commensurate with market economics because both are based on choice and accountability - one temporal, the other spiritual.

Actually the only change thru history is the name. They used to call them slaves, now they call them employees. They pay them so little, that they live in holes apartments exactly like the slaves lived in tiny rooms. The only change is that u get to choose your master aka company to be enslaved for.. And it is a big lie that companies need the workers and pay well. Since the western countries import third world countries cheap labor, they can easily choose the cheapest workers.

This was stated very far down this dialogue: Do you want America to compete in a far market in the auto industry? Great. Then you should be a strong advocate for universal health care administered by Uncle Sam.

Why? BECAUSE the Japanese, Canadian, England, and the rest of the manufacturers don't have to dangle heath insurance (and those expenses) to assure their employees are healthy.

Consequently they can sell their cars at a more competitive price. AND THERE'S MORE! Because their economy spends less on Health Care per person than we do they get a lot more bang for their buck.

Rob
This simply is not true. ALL Honda products from motorcycles to cars and trucks are made in Marysville OH and EXPORTED to Japan. Toyota builds and then exports the Cami in Georgetown KY; Subaru in IN, Mercedes in Alabama; BMW in SC, Lexus north of Toronto, Suzuki in IN, Mitsubishi in Illinois, All Japanese design centers are on the West Coast. All Nissans in TN. And this is not just in the last 10 years. Honda came to Marysville OH some 25 years ago to build motorcycles. I spent 35 years of my life working with each of these companies plus the once American Big 3. In my between college semester days I was a UAW member--had to be in order to get a job at this factory. The stupidity, "get-away with", "get around the system" of Unions is found in their members work ethic (little to none. I have seen 12 men assigned by shear Union force to a work station for ONE. So while the ONE works, many sleep in the racks or spend the day in the breakroom or as most do leave and go to their "real 40 hour job" and are checked out by buddies. It happened far too many times in Buick City (Flint MI--and we know that Flint is as violent and dead as Detroit for Buick is gone). Any unionized company cannot make a profit when the UNION leadership and members have no work ethic, greed, mooching. Working my way up to Executive and negotiating many contracts, running a Union plant is easy when Management demands that the rules of the contract be carried out. Far too often, the contract is simply not followed by the membership and/or the leadership; but when management reads from the contract, the Union has lost its bark and bite. When that happens it has been my experience that the end result of management using the contract will actually create a mutual respect attitude and production happens. Moochers then become Producers and at least in my companies, once that culture is established, and it does not take long, then management will ignore the contract in one vital area: pay. Because production bonuses, performance measurements rewards, profit rewards are then introduced and soon everybody profits and is rewarded for their own ability--but always as a team. This is the glue of efficient production, quality improvement and cost reduction: a group of individuals working together for the benefit for each other. The rewards go to the individual who contributed to the result made by the Team. In short, everybody wins including the stockholders and consumers. Greatest thing I have ever seen; the free-enterprise system. Rand is correct in her from the clouds view with strong dividing lines never changing. Everything changes. Rand taught how to avoid; Milton Friedman taught me how to make money without greed or embarrassment. What we have today in companies is pure greed. Can you imagine what the dividends could be in any company if their management staff did not take almost 5-10% of revenue in salary, bonuses, pension, personal expenses, and perks. Today, very few people understand (for the majority do not know of Atlas nor Milton) what is ultimate end will be. Willie leaning against the Comet with its light shining into the darkness of nothing crying, Don't let it go! When it was all gone! One thing about Atlas that I have believed for 35 years, the end is the opposite of the book. For who is going to re-build: John Galt. Whose morals and values will you have to except: Mine (from the speech). Whose ethic: Mine. You will praise ME for what you did not praise me for 12 years ago (implied). I will not live under any ONE or selected elite VALUES, MORALS or ETHIC. Nor will I live under an oligarchy; nor socialist. I chose Freedom and will die for it. Somebody also mentioned the Declaration in his response using it has a justification for whatever. No where in the Constitution, which is Law NOT the Declaration, does it say anything that the Reasons for Revolution stated in the Declaration. Did the Founders understand the principle of life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness (no guarantees--this was the magic that was America, you could pursue happiness defined by YOU not others), of course, they did. Thus comes from whence cometh the Power---The People. Is it perfect? Almost but where it was weak amendments made it strong; and where it was strong, other amendments betrayed it. And so it goes, August 15, 2013.