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Here's How I See the Election

Posted by Tbird7553 8 years, 4 months ago to Politics
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The election boils down to two areas of voters. The large city populations went to Clinton giving her the popular vote. The rest of the country went to Trump giving him the Electoral vote. This poses many questions in my mind. 1) Why do large city populations vote liberal? 2) Do we really want to eliminate the Electoral College and have mob rule?


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  • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 4 months ago
    Don't forget the votes of dead people, illegal aliens, etc.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 8 years, 4 months ago
    USA # of counties 3084 Trump won 2627 Clinton won 487 . The counties won by Clinton were Urban .. Trump won the rest.
    Popular vote was close but Clinton won.
    The electoral college was won by Trump.
    That is the rules ( the most electoral votes )and I was taught that in grade school.
    How about a smooth transition of power and vote him out the next time, if you can get a candidate that gets the most electoral votes...period.
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  • Posted by robertmbeard 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good catch on the democracy reference. I agree with your and the founders' statements of concern about raw "mob rule" democracy. I occasionally, but not usually, slip up and say democracy when I'm thinking "representative government." I'll try not to do that.

    Our national government is a Constitutional Republic. The two main principles of republicanism, which feature prominently in our form of government are: (1) opposition to kings, dictators, and other forms of authoritarianism, and (2) rule of Law, properly constrained by a constitution which limits government power. The Republican Party, founded in 1854, claims to stand for the principles of republicanism. However, in my mind, the first principle seems to not be as rigorously followed now, with many in the GOP increasingly accepting of strong-arm, bullying tactics from the president. That concerns me greatly...
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  • 13
    Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree, Trump did not win a mandate. It was a battle of who to vote against. imo, his campaign manager had a better strategy than Hitlery.

    "The founding fathers believed strongly in both Federalism ... and Democracy."
    I agree regarding Federalism and that the electoral college serves a valid purpose that should continue..
    However, to the contrary, many of the founders thought democracy was a terrible form of government. They intended to establish a republican form of government, not a democracy.

    "Democracy is the most vile form of government. ... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property: and have in general been as short in their lives as the have been violent in their deaths."
    - - - James Madison (1751-1836) "Father" of the Constitution, 4th President of the U. S.

    “We are a Republic. Real Liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of Democracy.”
    - - - Alexander Hamilton (1755-1804) Lawyer, Secretary of the Treasury & Secretary of State

    “A simple democracy is the devil's own government.”
    - - - This quote is attributed to several American patriots. Most often to Benjamin Rush, or Jedidiah Morse.

    “Democracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy; such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit, and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable [abominable] cruelty of one or a very few.”
    - - - John Adams (1797-1801) Second President of the United States

    “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
    - - - Thomas Jefferson, Author of the Declaration of Independence, 3rd President of the U. S.

    “A democracy is a volcano, which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption, and carry desolation in their way.”
    - - - Fisher Ames (1758-1808) Founding Father and framer of the First Amendment to the Constitution

    “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy. It is not true, in fact, and nowhere appears in history. Those passions are the same in all men, under all forms of simple government, and when unchecked, produce the same effects of fraud, violence, and cruelty. When clear prospects are opened before vanity, pride, avarice, or ambition, for their easy gratification, it is hard for the most considerate philosophers and the most conscientious moralists to resist the temptation. Individuals have conquered themselves. Nations and large bodies of men, never.”
    - - - John Adams (1797-1801) Second President of the United States

    “Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state, it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage.”
    - - - John Witherspoon (1722-1794) Educator, Economist, Minister, Writer & Founding Father

    "The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty."
    - - - Fisher Ames (1758-1808) Founding Father and framer of the First Amendment to the Constitution

    “We have seen the tumults of democracy terminate, in France, as they have everywhere terminated, in despotism.”
    - - - Gouverneur Morris (1752-1816) Statesman, Diplomat, writer of the final draft of the Constitution

    "In democracy … there are commonly tumults and disorders … Therefore a pure democracy is generally a very bad government. It is often the most tyrannical government on earth.”
    - - - Noah Webster (1758-1843)

    “All such men are, or ought to be, agreed, that simple governments are despotisms; and of all despotisms, a democracy, though the least durable, is the most violent.”
    - - - Fisher Ames (1758-1808)

    “Republicanism is not the phantom of a deluded imagination. On the contrary, laws, under no form of government, are better supported, liberty and property better secured, or happiness more effectually dispensed to mankind.”
    - - - George Washington (1732-1799)

    "There is no good government but what is republican. That the only valuable part of the British constitution is so; for the true idea of a republic is 'an empire of laws, and not of men.' That, as a republic is the best of governments, so that particular arrangement of the powers of society, or in other words, that form of government which is best contrived to secure an impartial and exact execution of the law, is the best of republics."
    - - - John Adams (1797-1801) Second President of the United States

    “A pure Democracy, by which I mean a Society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the Government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of Government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party, or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is, that such Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives, as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of Government, have erroneously supposed, that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.”
    - - - James Madison, Federalist No. 10

    The quotes above were researched by a friend and if desired I can provide links to sources.
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  • Posted by mminnick 8 years, 4 months ago
    My assessment of why Large cities have large Dem/Liberal/Progressive voting blocks is they , these voters, have received the most for the government by way of welfare and uother subsidies and are very afraid that if they vote for the "Opposition Party" they will loose these subsidies.
    They little realizes that they are well on the road to becomingso conditioned to respond to the Progressive bell that they have little volition of their own to vote otherwise.
    The other states, having less of the urban influx do not have the issues the large cities have and do not have the subsidies the large cities have. Look a a map colored by party winning each county. The map looks very different on a county by county basis. The urban counties are typically "Blue" and the others typically "Red" A map at this level shows the density of the progressive wing of the Dems in it's tru location the Large Cities. and almost no where else.
    As for the argument for the Electoral College, it was made very eloquently by the founding fathers so as to limit the power of the large staes vs the small states, just as the creat compromise (The House being numbered by population and the senate being set to 2 members per state. Great foresight shown by the founders.
    +1: it was marked down while I was entering my comment.
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    Posted by robertmbeard 8 years, 4 months ago
    To answer your question, we should not eliminate the Electoral College. The founding fathers believed strongly in both Federalism (balance of power between the states and the national/federal government) and Democracy. The Presidency was chosen to represent 2 voting constituencies -- 1) the States, and 2) the people. Thus, the Electoral College vote represents the sum of Senators (states' interest) and Congressmen (peoples' interest). Based on the weighting between the 2, the state portion of the electoral vote is only about 19% overall.

    Presidential preference popular voting began in the election of 1824, which due to its newness had the lowest voter turnout of all subsequent elections. Out of the 49 presidential elections with popular voting, the 2016 election had the 19th lowest voter turnout, tying the 2012 election. It was the 11th lowest electoral vote win percentage, nowhere close to being a landslide as Trump spins it. It was a photo-finish, buzzer-beating, razor-thin victory in Florida and 3 rust belt states. The 2016 election was the 7th lowest popular vote win percentage out of the 49 referred to above. It was also the 3rd worst popular vote margin win percentage (-2.1%) and only the 5th time in history that the loser of the popular vote became president.

    Based on an objective analysis of the numbers above, this was not a mandate election. Plus, anecdotal evidence points to the outcome being primarily driven by who voters thought was worse, since they were primarily voting against the other major candidate. Dissatisfaction with the 2 main candidates produced 3 times as many third party votes as usual (almost 5.9% of the total vote). Also, in several battleground states with competitive U.S. Senate races (FL, WI, PA, NH, for example...), the GOP senate candidate earned more votes than Trump. It's practically unheard of that the top of the ticket doesn't earn the most votes compared to down ticket races. So, the Trump team can try to spin the election numbers a number of ways, but this was by no way a primarily satisfied electorate enthusiastically selecting a president with a strong mandate. It was a muddled mess, in a number of ways...
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  • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Mostly agree. Also, many in the large cities are too dependent on liberal government handouts and repeatedly vote for the candidate that will continue to provide them.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 4 months ago
    The following are generalizations and exceptions exist to some degree.
    People in large cities are not independent to the extent that those outside are independent. People in large cities are more specialized in their working activity and do not have the knowledge of or experience in activities required for survival compared to people living outside large cities.
    The young, ignorant, and inexperienced are moving in large numbers to large cities and lowering the average wisdom per capita. By the time they gain wisdom, the city will no longer attract them and they will take their wisdom to smaller towns as did the generations before them. They may have had more education, but that does not in any way equate to wisdom.
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