Global climate change

Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 2 months ago to Science
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I have two questions about climate change: 1. What is the primary cause of climate change? 2. Who benefits by publishing faulty data?


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  • Posted by maxgeoac 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm doing my research on Petroleum Geology for one of the producing formations in the Permian Basin of West Texas.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm sure somebody will pick up on it. Graduate students, etc. Maybe somebody interested in mathematical physics.

    What other subject? I've always regretted not having had the time to learn more about geology. I like rocks.
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  • Posted by maxgeoac 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If it wasn't for the fact that I'm already doing serious research on another subject for my Master's Degree, I would consider it.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm thinking you may be inferring a sort of "superposition" of cyclic frequencies.

    Serious research is good. I'd like to know for myself, too. You do the research; I'll do the analysis, and ask the questions. Will that work?

    Just kidding.
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  • Posted by maxgeoac 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Unfortunately, that is not my area of expertise. However, my best guess would by the overall multiple cyclicities and where we are in them is one possibility. But the reason as to why the data shows the correlation, I am unsure and would have to do some serious research.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Make that rapidly changing climatic conditions. Only a human---the only species with foresight---could more quickly change his environment to coincide with the rapid changes in climate, and thus have a greater chance of surviving.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I wanted to make sure you are aware that I was not questioning the data; the data makes the modeling look obscene.

    I was questioning why the data shows those correlations: what is the scientific mechanism behind the observances?
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 2 months ago
    Solar energy is the dominant force behind climate change but the presence of vegetation and animal life and the way they alter the chemical composition of the oceans and the atmosphere plays a significant roll. For example there would be no free oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere if there was no plant life.

    To answer the second part of the question it is important to understand the difference between climate science and climate politics. From the perspective of the scientist (real scientists) climate change is a phenomenon to be studied and understood. From the perspective of the politician it is a tool that can be used to increase political power. The scientist wants to understand it while the politician doesn't care if it is real or not. It is only important that it be accepted as a threat. As H. L. Menkin observed, "the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary."
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I've never heard of it before. It certainly seems tremendous in scope.
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  • Posted by Stormi 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    None of the numerous versions have every been mentioned during a meeting of environmentalists, even though at least 50 of them are operating! Are they that dumb, or just that in the loop to keep quiet?
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In my "opinion", men evolved to control their environment, unlike lower animals whose environment exercises control over them. I really think that is why it was only the species "Homo Sapiens Sapiens" that entered the Neolithic Age; the other human species died off, or whatever, and were not able to exercise the same amount of control over changing climatic conditions.
    Still we need to use that same "judgment" as we now have very powerful technologies that can control a greater extent of ecological systems.
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  • Posted by maxgeoac 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Very true. The worst part about Solar Farms is that you need to put them where the sun is always shining; preferably with very little cloud cover (i.e.: Dessert). However, they take massive amounts of water in order to run. Which means they have to deplete the aquifer. Or how about the fact that they can literally cook a bird flying over head. Yet they are preferable to "Environmentalists" because they don't put CO2 into the atmosphere.
    "Environmentalists" want wind farms because of the CO2 aspect; however, they also complain that too many birds get killed each year by them.

    Humans have the ability to better the world, but with a narrow viewpoint they will only mess things up worse. If they were to learn the greater cause and effects and started looking at the broad scope (not the narrow), we would all be much better off.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sometimes men (and women) just jump right to a solution before evaluating all the effects. Thus you get "unintended consequences".
    For instance, I'm sure wind farms will interfere with normal wind patterns, and I'm not sure what that will do weather.

    Or solar panel thermal farms. Those certainly are going to have some kind of effect on local climates. And thus wind patterns, as well.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, you all know Rahm Emanuel refers to it as "creating a crisis".
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  • Posted by maxgeoac 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am a geologist. And "Global Warming" or "Global Climate Change" is something that I have been trying to educate, or fight people on, for years. Many label me as a "Climate Change" denier because I don't believe humans are the root cause.

    I have not read anything by Michael Crichton, but I will definitely add it to my reading list. I think that Michael Crichton is in part correct on that assumption. The more we try to fix things, the worse they seem to get. The Earth knows how to take care of herself, we need to learn how to get out of the way and let her do it.

    One great example of this are the Levies along the Mississippi river built by the US Army Core of Engineers. It may help those that live along the river not get flooded as often; however, because of them the land needs to be fertilized constantly, which in turn causes water contamination, and thus now there is a huge anoxic zone where fish cannot thrive off the coast of New Orleans. Or the fact that the levies have removed water from where it should be flowing, and that the coastline of Louisiana is shrinking. Etc., etc., etc.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm sure the Russian version of HAARP will get blamed. (Just looked it up on Wikipedia.) Certainly not the American version.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Are you a geologist, Max?

    Have you ever read "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton? He not only questioned anthropogenic global warming, but demonstrated that when humans attempt to "fix" what to them seems like a problem, they bring on a worse problem. That is, ecoterrorism will have a worsening effect on ecosystems.
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  • Posted by Stormi 8 years, 2 months ago
    The activity of the sun is a major factor in climate change. Global warming has not happened in about 17 years. Placement of meters to regisiter heat were put in areas know to have bet build up, as in brick NYC courtyards. That fueled scientist to be able to declare global warming. They also found that they then could get grants, which is their lifeblood. They failed to reduce a coming decrease in the incidence of sunspots approaching. They also failed to factor in the cooling of the sun. Likely, it was overlook on p purpose.
    Who benefits, the one world government crowd. Those who want to control people using environmental measures, as Hitler once did. Take a close look at Romania today, vs. several years ago, they have moved backward. No AC, rolling brown outs, making refrigeration impossible to maintain, and no place to part the evil cars, thus making them less mobile. Mobility is a threat to those who want complete control.
    Yet no one ever mentions the fact that HAARP in Alaska and Puerto Rico, repeatedly heated the ionosphere and changed the jet stream, but then that was government action, not the people. It hs to be shown that people are causing it for people to be controlled.
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  • Posted by maxgeoac 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The Earth's Magnetosphere is also a likely cause of why it doesn't look cyclical.

    As for the water vapor, yes you typically would see more with higher temperatures. However, water vapor will also turn into water droplets forming clouds. Thus, more clouds more cooling since the sun's radiation cannot reach the earth's surface to heat it up. So it would have a semi-inverse relationship to temperatures. This is especially true since water tends to hold its heat for longer periods of time as compared to rock.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That seems to make sense. I wondered if maybe the presence of the earth's magnetosphere could possibly "even-out" sun spot activity, so that changes in the two would appear less cyclic. At least for those two factors; and maybe for other factors, such as atmospheric CO2.

    Another interesting anomaly, and maybe I can't remember my chemistry classes on this, but at higher temperatures, wouldn't you expect more water vapor in the atmosphere, not less?

    That particular correlation in the graph seems to show an inverse relation.
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  • Posted by maxgeoac 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Depending on what he is talking about, with CO2 readings and Warming trends, there is a time lag. CO2 levels actually increase after warming has already begun. Thus the correlation will be that CO2 rise and Warming are being caused by something else.
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  • Posted by maxgeoac 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It has to do with all the varying cycles in both earth orbit, earth tilt, solar, etc. and how they overlap through time. At some points, all will be at a high and thus have higher temps, while you will likely get variations of these that can either get canceled out or heightened. So if you get 4 patterns: one occurs every 1 million years, one occurs ever 33,000 thousand years, one every 5,200 years, and one occurs every 670 years... You will see something that doesn't look like any sort of cycle, but instead a random pattern. However, when you start to take each one individually, all the cycles are still occurring they may either be heightened or dampened by the other cycles.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not just fit the "opinion"; more like fit "what they want to believe" or maybe what they want others to believe.
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  • Posted by Seer 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm at the point where Riese is correlating sun spot activity with specific humidity and sea surface temperature, and I wanted to ask this before I forgot:
    Why does the sun spot activity appear cyclic, yet the other two do not? At least, as yet?
    (One seems to be a gradual decrease; the other a gradual increase.) Could there be a time lag interpretation?
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