If all people have to eat is sand they will eat sand. We need to find a way to present the knowledge in a way they will understand and accept it.

We are letting our schools teach them this dribble. We let our politicians give them everything with no strings attached. I believe there are enough people out there that want to make a difference but we do not have the leaders. (I am not leader material!)

Georges Santayana

But THEY DON'T CARE. They're getting their needs met without any effort and that's all they care about. Until they're left to their own means, and have something they've EARNED taken from them to give to someone else, they won't get it.

Again I say they lack the thirst of knowledge...which will lead to the truth. If something someone says, on the news or where ever else, doesn't quite make sense then we/they need to look further. Research...teach yourself...study some history etc. Americans have become lazy and lack any attention span. They want to be spoon fed opinions so they don't have to do the work themselves. It's despicable. Anyone who trusts the gov or most of what the media spews has a mental illness. I don't know who you hang around with, but I'm in a building every day with about 100 so called educated people..and NO one is talking about any current events, politics, loss of freedoms etc etc. (Okay...2 of us are but it's mostly just me.) And it's getting old old old. Where are they to get the fact? Take a look around and then read some history...the Constitution, about the founding fathers...previous dictators... we've gotten where we are today by walking down the same paths that have been walked before. Not to mention that a lot of people are used to the collective taking care of their every need and thought...we've lost independent thought and initiative...(which, personally, I think is a result of having no real fear of failure or of going hungry.)

One time against many missed opportunities. It is just like the Republicans saying that they need to talk to the people more. They put together a team to analyze the problem. Their answer is not to explain more to the people but to find more ways to put the same stuff out to the people. In other words turn up the volume.

I have read the book and watched the movie. The people are listening, the problem is what they are being told by the politicians and the media. On Fox News, a person said that every dollar of Food Stamps puts a dollar in the economy. No one challenged this statement. First the dollar was taken from the economy and diminished going through the governments hands. Then it was used to buy food that was already in the economy. And upon being eaten was entirely destroyed. Where were they to get the facts! This is supposedly the Fourth Estate that is to hold the Governments feet to the fire!

I disagree. (Have you read the book or are you basing this on the movie only?) In order for the "average person" to get on board with reality/logic they first HAVE TO LISTEN. THAT is their biggest problem. Also, their complete lack of thirst for knowledge where their own lives are concerned. They'd rather wear ear plugs and blinders and pretend their way through life. That only works for so long and only worsens the smack of reality once they can't avoid it any longer.

The problem is to identify the irrational people and show the rational ones what they are doing, not just to say I do not agree.

I looked at your postings. They are all talking about the symptoms of what is wrong. There is an underlying disease that is being ignored. Briefly lets take the Senator from Southern Nevada. He wants to take more tax money out of the economy. This takes more disposable income out of the economy which means there is less for things like trips to Las Vegas. Less trips to Las Vegas has caused the economic problems in Southern Nevada yet those people keep supporting him. Where is the problem?

He may have been the best HR could have gotten but there was no check that he understood what the widget was to look like. As to HR needing the support of the Government, the widget was to keep the Government out of the way not ask for support.

That was a challenge but it did not explain to the masses why it was wrong. It did nothing to get the average person behind him. It did nothing to explain the cause and effect of what was going on.

If HR hired someone to build a widget, he would have made sure it was the best he could get for what he was paying.
He ignored Mouch because to pay any attention to Mouch would be to embrace the premise that HR needed support from the government to exist. He did not need them.

"One must speak up in situations where silence can objectively be taken to mean agreement with or sanction of evil. When one deals with irrational persons, where argument is futile, a mere 'I don’t agree with you' is sufficient to negate any implication of moral sanction." - Ayn Rand

Their disappearances made it so their silence wasn't taken as agreement. Plus, John Galt's speech was him speaking up on all of their behalf.

In what way could they have done so that would have worked? When I read the book I felt that those who left for the Gulch had given up on changing the current government. That means they tried and the tide was still going against them. The only means left was to leave and allow the system to collapse.

no country can thrive in which it is possible for a competitor to gain an advantage through politics. "no one is explaining why it won't work to the people." Yes they are. People aren't listening. It's there if you want to hear it.
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/home-depot-f...
http://news.yahoo.com/video/carls-jr-ceo...
http://www.againstcronycapitalism.org/20...

Yes they had given up, but all I saw was as the going got tougher they worked harder to make their businesses work. They never tried to involve the people in understanding what was going wrong. A current example would be the stimulus the government has and wants to do. No one is explaining why it won't work to the people. Scientifically, the stimulus is a form of perpetual motion and there are many examples that can show this.

Good point, the problem is that he hired Mouch but did not give him any direction to start with nor did he keep an eye on what he was doing.
These are successful people that have the money to pay people to do their talking. If they are successful, they direct their business but do not direct their spokes people. If you want the support of the people you have to explain in their terms what is happening.

He was paid to represent him but I do not remember any real specifics. When you start a company to build widgets, you have some model or plan as to what it is to be. You don't just say go build a widget and not specify what it looks like or what you expect. And you also keep checking to see that your vision is being produced.

The problem is that those in a position to do something about it are too busy talking to listen or engage in a conversation with anyone who wants to challenge their ideas.

He hired Mouch with the expectation that Mouch would do what he was paid to do, and said he would do, represent him. The underhanded dealings of Mouch are the same as what we get from our 'employees', those we elect and pay to represent us. Their motives are usually hidden from our scrutiny and we never know how we're getting screwed until it happens.

Sales are important to the company. The problem is that people do not understand how sales affect the economy. They look at the dollars of the sale being all profit to the company. They do not connect the dots to the fact that they provide jobs to people other than the owners. Those sales also pay the taxes of the people that work for the company. Currently everyone thinks every transaction has only two parts and do not connect all the dots involved.

engineer, have you read the book?
It is true that her heroes did not engage in the political realm. It's true in real life. People are busy producing, they don't have time to get involved in politics. Being in politics and effecting change, is hard to also spend time on a for profit business that isn't involved with that. It's only when people take a step back from their business/work pursuits, can they justify the time and talent. Or make the politics pay. One or the other. In Rand's case, she found a way to successfully make developing a philosophy pay. She was very clear this is a battle of ideas.
*SPOILER*
JG and HR and DT were not in the media business nor in politics. Their ability to speak out was limited probably more so when AS was written than today.
Remember what happens when HR hires Mouch to look after his political interests?

The support or lack of support should be in the form of sales. There should be no need for the general population to have warm fuzzy feelings for you, unless it is by their will that you are allowed to exist. Since the hero characters disagree with the 'allowed to exist' premise, they just do their best to ignore the 'pull' currency (popular sentiment).