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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Further proof of their insanity. The one group everyone should be most afraid of, and they see them as protector.

    The LGBT "community" isn't a minority any more than the Homebrew Computer Club was a minority. Or than PETA or the Congressional Cigar Association...

    It's a massively diverse... not even "group" or "collection" of people whose only commonality isn't a sex or race, but any appetite that's not heterosexual. Hence the need for the 4-letter-acronym.

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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, they don't face disproportionate *persecution*. Like an infant, you (and they) want to whine and scream persecution because the rest of us won't embrace and accept their deviancies from normal as BEING normal.

    It's not persecution to refuse to reverse the entire definition of western cultural evolutionary history, to ignore the reality of the nature of homo sapiens, to ignore the most basic and simple logic, in order to make members of the LGBT not-feel different or abnormal.

    I DON'T CARE ANYMORE. No, I don't mean I'm indifferent; I mean screw them. To hell with them. There are individuals in this society who EVERY SINGLE FREAKING DAY have to deal with being different, who have to deal with being defectively different, even. They get up in the morning, the deal with it, they go to bed at night. They don't give up, they don't whine to every ear within hearing about how rough they have it, or how it's somebody else's fault because somebody else won't be put out and change his normalness just to make them feel better.

    Bang your drum all you like; I'm not listening. Keep banging your drum, and the LGBT "community" will be dealt with the same way any other spoiled child is dealt with when his mother has had enough of his acting up.
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What you are seeking are not protections, they are exceptions. You want laws that exceed those any other group has. Perhaps if the group was not so typically "in your face" it would not be so opposed and the laws that the rest of us find adequate would be enough.

    Then there is the whole science thing where there is no proof of the existence of a gene that is the trigger for homosexuality. Without that proof it is a desire, a lust, a wish, not a physical, identifiable, sex. Odd that there are genes for both male and female and genetic examinations of homosexual individuals render no statistical variation from whichever sex that person is. The genome is mapped and the reason behind each pair is known, at least to the specific area they control. From eye color to number of toes, it's documented and no homosexual genes were found.

    The best case to prove your path might be to have reinstated into the PDR as a psychological disorder. Then efforts could then be made once more to cure it - but that's not what you want, is it?
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I do not know who dinged you, star. This is the second time I have seen this comment:
    "we religious people ARE a protected class, specifically enumerated in the bill of rights, with our activities listed first in that shopping list of rights and privileges."
    I'm not sure where you get that? But, I'll start another post regarding this...
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you think that maph, you've never read the posts that are following somebody here in the gulch confessing to be a Christian. I've received PM's from MANY Christians who tell me that they just couldn't stand the pressure that would fall on them if they admitted to being a Christian on here.

    Unlike the LGBT people you campaign for with the religious fervor of a true acolyte, we religious people ARE a protected class, specifically enumerated in the bill of rights, with our activities listed first in that shopping list of rights and privileges.

    As a man interested in science (but not blinded by it's limitations) I know and understand the meaning of the term "cull" and "mule" as expressed in genetics. Perhaps you might want to examine that as a part of your "open minded research" into sexuality.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What "equal rights" are you referencing? Why should an employer be encouraged to hire a certain percentage of LGBTs? How is that efficient business practice? Am I not for equal rights? What does the color of one' s skin have to do with their skillsets? The only purpose in granting extra rights for groups is to force extra privleges everyone outside the group doesn 't get. If I was a baker and you wanted me to decorate a cake for a neo-nazi rally and I refused, have I violated someone's "equal rights?" Maybe hate groups deserve some extra rights because most of the rest of us refuse to associate with them. I know I wouldn 't hire someone who openly admitted he spent his off time hating people due to race or sexuality
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think the more we draw attention to differences between groups, the more the issue. Those who identify with the LGBT community (lots of gays and gays who are in partnerships don 't btw) make things awfully confrontational over perceived slights. I am not saying that bad people aren 't out there targeting people based on race, sexuality etc. But for the most part the community has way overplayed its hand leaving large numbers of people who are usually live and let live defensive and angry. I think you engage that way. Then when you get that reaction you point to it and say see? Hate. Until you 've made it clear to us you 've attended some tea party rallies and engaged in the agenda set forth in the rally I would say your opinion is highly prejudiced falsely. A candidate can claim they associate with any group. Many rinos during election time say they support the tea party. Many democrats avoid the word socialist in favor of progressive even though socialist ideas direct their policy making. We say we are a capitalist society when we actually are a bastardized version of it which has really bad consequences when we incorpotate socialist laws and regs and cronyism. So Cuba's a marxist country with strict gun control. Guns were not a pillar of the philosophy but every country that works at communism figures out pretty quickly they don 't want their citizens armed. Tryanny is about division indtead of production and individualism. An individual freely associates. Group thinkers tyrannize by forcing associations and stealing from certain groups to give to others. Sometimes Christians put the fish symbol on their advertising encouraging business relationships based on being part of that group opposed to building a reputation on good products and services. After all if your reputation is secure why the need to shout you 're a Christian to your customers? So what? Asian communities tend to do business with other asians first. This is especially true in real estate yet no one screams racism. Refusing or shutting down opportunities based on illogical criteria hurts that individual more than an individual offering a good opportunity. Someone else will jump in and take it. There were probably 50 bakers in CO who would have solicited the couple who sued. Seems to me the couple shut down opportunities for themselves and on a vendetta forced someone to do something against their will. I like the blog layout btw
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  • -6
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm pretty sure I'm correct. AJAshinoff just can't see the prejudice because he's so completely immersed in it that he's no longer even aware of it. It's like asking a fish what the water is like. Now granted, I'm sure there are some members of the Tea Party who support Civil Rights (after all, the movement is large enough that simple laws of probability guarantee a variety of opinion), but supporters of Civil Rights seem to be a minority within the movement. Since our society has essentially made open bigotry and prejudice unacceptable, most people who oppose equal rights do what AJAshinoff is doing, and preform mental gymnastics to try and logically argue how opposition to Civil Rights is not actually opposition to Civil Rights.

    For another example, watch this video from Texas where a religious pastor tries to argue that freedom of religion gives her the right to discriminate against gays, lesbians, transgender people, and Jews in her business:

    Houston Pastor Says Religious Freedom Means the Right to Discriminate Against Gays, Jews:
    http://tfninsider.org/2014/05/16/houston...

    This is what opposition to Civil Rights looks like today. Those who support bigotry and prejudice have learned to cloak themselves in the language of their victims. But the smoke screen is easily penetrated by anyone who actually understands how persecution works, as seen in the above video where the woman accidentally steps out from behind her mental screen and speaks clearly for a moment, before retreating back behind the veil of language.
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  • -1
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The members of the LGBT community themselves are not fundamentally different at all. A big part of the LGBT platform is the idea that everyone is the same inside. Remember that new Burger King marketing campaign a few weeks ago about the Proud Whopper? Yeah...

    But in spite of that, the fact remains that the LGBT community faces disproportionate persecution in society, and because of that there need to be special protections put in place. You can't blame people for trying to use the law to defend themselves when they're under attack.
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  • -4
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Almost universally? I wonder if there are any surveys. This could be true, but it doesn't ring true. You'd think they'd want the govt to leave LGBT people alone."
    ---
    It's not the government that the LGBT community is afraid of. Persecuted minorities typically view the Federal government as a protector, rather than an aggressor. I'll give you three guesses as to who they feel they need to be protected from, and I don't think you'll need the last two... ;)
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The events at the 20th Century Motor Factory were fictional, and as such are an inadequate example to turn to when discussing political theory as it applies to the real world. Don't get me wrong, theoretical models like that are useful to a point, but they should not be used as a substitute for actual history.
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  • -5
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You obviously have never talked at length with anyone in the LGBT community. When a group is being specifically targeted for persecution, then they need to be specifically targeted for protection, regardless of what attribute the persecution is based on.

    By the way, thanks for proving me right.
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  • Posted by Lucky 10 years, 9 months ago
    I have a few problems with Map's arguments-
    Map, you want to find the truth. This is stated with some belligerency, do so, who is stopping you?
    Post up when it is found.
    There are founders of philosophies, and there are movements. For example: Darwin and evolution, Marx and communism, Mohammed and Islam, Rand and Objectivism. Maybe bad stuff happens as a result of the movement, one view says is will turn out ok, or will later be shown to be correct, or the followers have distorted the words of the founder. With a discrepancy between the words of the founder and actions of the movement it can be asked- who is right? How to form an opinion? Try "By their fruits shall you know them".
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly. It's kind of like the issue of what "rights" are. I saw a local person at a pro-illegal alien rally today asserting that food, clothing and shelter were human "rights". No, they are common human needs. Rights can't place a pro-active obligation on others.

    Likewise, "rights" are an individual matter. Constantly, especially on the left, the issue of "group rights" keeps coming up. As if one's rights were a matter of what categories one could be pigeon-holed into by others (or even by oneself). The very notion of group-based rights is antithetical to the idea of individuality.

    Today, Stacey Dash (sigh) got a nasty twitter message (I guess he deleted it because I can't find it now) basically telling her to stop retweeting certain people because she's black and should act like it. Refusing to accept her as an individual, but only as a member of a pre-conceived "group".

    That's what this bs is all about. Not simply lumping people into groups, but people *wanting* to be lumped into groups for the perceived power it gains them.

    At the 20th Century factory, hard work and creativity didn't gain you anything; because your pay wasn't based on ability but on need. Likewise, political capital isn't made today based upon merit, but upon victimhood. Everyone at the 20th century had to declare their hardships, because that's what got them the alms. In the real world of American society, victimhood gets people the alms.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I believe PEOPLE have rights, men and women, straight or homosexual. Literally everyone I know from the Tea Party (hundreds across the country) support and would die defending the rights of men and women. Advancing any rights based on anything other than their being male or female is sheer stupidity and open to manipulation, exploitation and exaggeration.
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  • -1
    Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The article says Tea Party rallies are filled with people who don't support equal rights. You say they're wrong. Maybe the media just find a few rare bigots. Then you say you're not for equal rights. Are you the rare exception or is the article correct on this point?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I tend to agree with what you're saying, with the caveat of replacing "public good" with "common good", as in:

    "The problem comes when the gov't pays for something that proponents say benefits everyone (e.g. providing education, propping up the financial system). When critics scream, “but that's socialism!!” what I think they're saying is, “this is not a common good, like policing.” "

    Maph operates under a false premise; that the "LGBT" community is fundamentally and uniquely different from everyone else. This is like saying that the left-handed are fundamentally and uniquely different from everyone else.

    He can only represent this by painting with a broad brush and lumping both appetites and genetic anomalies together, using the latter to mask the former.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago
    The absolute ignorance in this posting is astounding. Attend Tea Party meetings and rallies and see for yourself. Be as flaming as you wish but STOP SHOVING IT IN MY FACE. That is the sentiment I've repeatedly seen and agree with. Men and Women have rights this is universally supported by everyone I've ever met. A persons SEXUAL PREFERENCES has no business attaining rights. unless of course gays aren't either gender
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago
    "it seemed to me that the word “Socialist” had literally no meaning whatsoever, and was just a negative byword that people could use as an empty vessel to describe any and all political policies they disliked"
    Sometimes it is, but I think the most common substantive meaning is paying for private goods with public monies. A private good is something like housing b/c the use of a house could be denied to those who don't pay for it. A public good is something like policing b/c there's no way to exclude those who'd rather not have the benefit of policing. The problem comes when the gov't pays for something that proponents say benefits everyone (e.g. providing education, propping up the financial system). When critics scream, “but that's socialism!!” what I think they're saying is, “this is not a public good like policing.”

    “disturbing trend I've noticed among the Tea Party is that they almost universally oppose Civil Rights, especially equal rights for the LGBT community”

    Almost universally? I wonder if there are any surveys. This could be true, but it doesn't ring true. You'd think they'd want the govt to leave LGBT people alone.
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