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Thoughts on Force

Posted by khalling 7 years, 10 months ago to Philosophy
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Suppose I'm a mugger, and I shove a gun in your face and demand a single dime from you. You're surprised I only want a dime, but you comply anyway. Then I run away. In such a case, the cost that this mugging imposed upon you was greater than the dime alone; the very fact that someone threatened violence upon you is the greater cost to which the dime is added.- Stuart Hayashi


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  • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The fence of stolen goods was not involved in the initial crime but still has an accountability for which to answer.
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  • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ragnar only pirated ships carrying looted cargo, especially looted by governments. If I were a seaman I would not sign on to the crew of such a ship. BT

    P.S. If I could not identify the cargo as "not loot" I'd walk the wharf until I found one. If not that, I would seek other work.
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  • Posted by BeenThere 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    JG answered that: "When someone tries to deal with me by force I answer him.....with FORCE!!!!!!!

    Very unequivocal !!! BT
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  • Posted by amhunt 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agree -- but even if the "TAKER" does not "DECIDE the %" (i.e. some other "independent" party does) it is still slavery.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 10 months ago
    What I say is, that if a mugger shoves a gun in your
    face and demands a dime, if you somehow pull out a gun of your own and shoot him dead right there, as a matter of principle, you are totally within your rights. I am told that the law (in Virginia, at least) says that you may not take life
    in defense of property, but I don't care; that law is
    in violation of the rights of man. The issue is not
    life vs. property, or how much money is involved. The issue is, that he crossed the line.
    He had no right to force you to act against your own independent judgment.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 10 months ago
    If we all operated under the Prime Law directive; which underlies our constitution and just plain common sense, there would be no problem.

    To recap:
    The Prime Law®
    (The Fundamental of Protection)
    Preamble
    The purpose of human life is to prosper and live happily.
    The function of government is to provide the conditions that let individuals fulfill that purpose.
    The Prime Law guarantees those conditions by forbidding the use of initiatory force, fraud, or coercion by any person or group against any individual, property, or contract.
    Article 1
    No person, group of persons, or government shall initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against any individual’s self, property, or contract.
    Article 2
    Force is morally-and-legally justified only for protection from those who violate Article 1.
    Article 3
    No exceptions shall exist for Articles 1 and 2.
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Income Tax IS Slavery because the TAKER also DECIDES the %.

    Which literally says "I own your output, but I will let you keep 48% of the proceeds, I need the 52% for other things. And those who are self-employed understand either flow through, or ~39% business tax + 15% capital gains.

    I start seeing the value of striking!
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  • Posted by lonerinfl 7 years, 10 months ago
    There are a number of things wrong with violent force being used, but the greater problem of the concept of thought of force is the one a person applies on themselves. Not all force is obvious as a gun or knife, some is social pressure is more vulgar than any weapon simple because it requires personal acceptance and self violence to comply to be part of that society. We all need to realize that the pursuit of happiness is not the same for all people. Just because I prefer to give my assistance to a teacher of children, does not mean it is wrong or right just my choice. The point is force is only what we allow it to be.
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  • Posted by dscotese 7 years, 10 months ago
    I agree, and I feel that by giving up the dime so easily - without some conversation about what brought this mugger to this state - I would also have cheated myself of a great opportunity.
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  • 10
    Posted by dbhalling 7 years, 10 months ago
    “Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people.”
    —John Locke
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the movie is made. Atlas Shrugged-the T-shirt, Atlas Shrugged-the Coloring Book, Atlas Shrugged-the Lunch box, Atlas Shrugged-the Breakfast Cereal, Atlas Shrugged-the Flame Thrower."

    --Originally from Space Balls
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  • Posted by Domminigan 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The crews and guards of the ships were hired with money stolen from the people to deliver materials and goods also stolen from the people; this was done to the point that the people needed those stolen goods and materials to survive.

    When an individual is stolen from; the intent is to send the police to recover, using force, the stolen property and to punish those involved in the theft. When an individual has their life threatened, it should always be right and just to defend that life with whatever means at hand.
    The man caught eating the face off a homeless man a few years ago may have felt threatened by the police officer who shot and killed him; but his right to life and safety was forfeit by his own prior actions. Had he managed to kill the police officer who shot him; he would still have been in the wrong despite his fear of threat from the officer.

    Atlas Shrugged gave us a world where, knowingly, the government and police are the thieves; stealing everything they could, threatening the very lives of the people and even killing them.

    Ragnar used force to retake things that were stolen by force and deliver the value of those recovered items in as appropriate a manner as he was able. A job and a paycheck do not morally entitle anyone to steal or murder those they steal from.
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  • Posted by KevinSchwinkendorf 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Atlas Shrugged Fan fiction - sounds like a new market to me! The original Star Trek TV series was only 78 episodes, but look at all the books it inspired! (plus comic books, plastic model kits, movies, action figures, all the merchandising, etc.!)
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My greatest threat hasn’t been thugs, but government people. They don’t want a dime. They want big money. At what point do I just say NO ? $1000, $10,000, $100,000
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you want a great author to check out, try Brad Thor. His military expertise as applied to modern problems with a philosophical bent are outstanding IMHO. He might be a fun one to invite to the Gulch for Q&A.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 10 months ago
    During the 70s I had my life threatened more than once (usually on the phone).and due to fear for my life I started to carry a gun.
    I never had a gun shoved in my face but I think I can kinda relate to how that must feel like.
    I'm quite certain that having my life threatened by a gun would have a larger impact on me than being forced to hand over a large amount of cash.
    Anyone who asked for a dime I may regard as the crazy humor of someone who is going to kill me anyway. I've been practicing a quick draw and point (not aim) while thumbing down the safety to off with my pocket pistol.
    Would I with a hammering heart pull that pistol or or freeze? I honestly don't know, but I keep my spare change in that same pocket and my wallet in the other.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Atlas Shrugged fan fiction. Yes. I myself thought of the story of someone who has his own way of going on strike: he sets out in a sailing sloop to find Ragnar Danneskjold's ship, with a view to joining his crew!
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In any argument, once the use of force is introduced, the person introducing it is automatically wrong.
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