Why universal basic income is gaining support, critics or The destruction of our Republic

Posted by Mitch 7 years, 9 months ago to Politics
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It's back again...

"He figures the plan would cost about $1.75 trillion a year. Ending welfare programs would save about a third of that. Another third could come from ending the tax deduction for mortgage interest and other write-offs. The remaining third could come from new sources such as a tax on carbon emissions or financial transactions."

1/3 through "ending welfare programs" - will never happen but okay...
1/3 through "ending the tax deduction for mortgage interest and other write-offs" - So they are going to take my mortgage interest deduction away and give it to someone else.
1/3 through more taxes - robbing Peter to pay Paul again

Also, this is paper napkin figures, government will double the cost with half the production.


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  • Posted by fosterj717 7 years, 9 months ago
    This is about one of the most stupid things I have ever heard! This even takes the socialized world of "Atlas Shrugged" to the edge making Rand's view of the future lame and weak by comparison! Pushing this is pushing the nation towards fully attaining the Fabian Society's wildest dreams of a Communist take-over (of course through incremental socialism as was the plan).

    As for the government doubling the costs at half the production, even that is wildly over-optimistic! Just another "pipe dream" for the terminally stupid and/or naive!
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  • -2
    Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree with all of this wholeheartedly.

    "The only way forward is to retrain people for the maintenance, design, coding and manufacturing of the automation"
    I agree completely, but when we put it like that it is sounds kind of dour. It actually means we have amazing new tools that don't require huge upfront investment to use. It's actually staggering to think of all the prosperity people will create with those tools.

    "The people promoting UBI are not your friend"
    Yes. No kidding. The only part I said I agreed to is to the extent it replaces programs run by bureaucrats with a simpler program that just hands people cash. I am skeptical of that, though, because it could grow and become a third rail entitlement, and there's no guarantee more gov't spending wouldn't come back.

    My point is all that stuff you said is very good fodder for sophistry showing that times are so unusual that socialism is the answer. That's why I said when I'm feeling cynical I imagine a Trump supporters and Sanders supporters joining forces under the banner of that sophistry.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The automation revolution is going to be disruptive but don’t be ignorant and believe that UBI is a solution. The people promoting UBI are not your friend, this isn’t the utopian wonderland your looking for, this is a dystopian disaster where we will have classes of people or stratification of humanity.

    The only way forward is to retrain people for the maintenance, design, coding and manufacturing of the automation. Right now, I’m speaking about the digital menus used to replace the waiter, the machine in Mc Donald’s that replaces the french-fry cook or the automated car that replaces the taxi driver. This the first wave of automation already beginning. The second wave occurs when these businesses reap massive rewards for being the first and everyone else plays catchup. Before here is when the next Microsoft, IBM or Apple is born for automation by publishing API, OS and hardware for automation.

    Here, where automation takes hold is where I see a massive disruption in the economy while everything readjusts. It has to, without UBI. This bullshit about machines building machines with the artificial intelligence to rival humans is way, way off…
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  • Posted by 7 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    True, to the point that it encourages people to purchase a home on credit. I’d love the mortgage interest deduction to go away but it would have to happen in conjunction with tax cuts that offset the losses. The government shouldn’t be in the business of promoting one activity over the other, that is for dictatorships.

    The UBI discussion here is to use that to pay for a handout… I understand that I would be getting “some” of this back. My problem is that it’s not the governments money to give to me in the first place, it’s my own money. They take it with a tax and then “decide” if you should get more than/the same as/less then you paid in based on a merit that isn’t a merit I consider a virtue. The beginning of serfdom…
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 9 months ago
    Mortgage interest deduction is to benefit the banking cartel, not you. Not likely to be changed.
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  • -6
    Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 9 months ago
    There will be more calls for this in the future because they are correct that technology is causing higher returns on investment and lower returns on labor. The solution is not more gov't spending.

    I agree with your analysis about the thirds. I would support replacing Welfare programs with some sort of direct payments if it meant the same money going to the needy but with less administrative overhead and no new spending.

    The other two thirds are, as you say, veiled tax increases. I actually agree with things like mortgage interest not being a deduction. I would rather them lower the rate and eliminate deductions meant to subsidize certain spending, e.g. spending on mortgage interest. I agree with a tax on carbon emissions because the evidence shows those emissions will cost other people money in the future. They can do that in a revenue neutral way, reducing taxes on money made through work and investing, which unlike burning stuff do not threaten the environment.

    I am concerned, though, that something like this will be passed. People will show some numbers about how many hours you have to work to pay for a basket of groceries 50 years ago and now. They'll show you many baskets of groceries worth of wealth you'd need to have to earn enough feed a family 50 years ago and now. It will make socialism look more appealing. 50 years is a blip of time, but it feels long compared to our lifetimes.

    I can see a Trump-like figure and a Sanders-like figure joining forces in support of this. Hopefully I'm just in a cynical mood.
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