Why do you think brick layer types (manual labor, uneducated etc) people can't grasp Gulch philosophy? Who, in your opinion, has that market cornered?

So what would of happened if some hiker wandering through the woods stumbled upon the Gulch. Would they have imprisoned him for not knowing it was private land? And if so for how long?

Have you read the book?

First, the account had not been opened with her knowledge, will or permission. In fact she did not know of the bank until she crashed into the valley.

Secondly, she agreed with every precept that formed the foundation, the underlying reasons for being that bound all of he valley's populace together. The only point she was not in total agreement with them was the idea that there was nothing that she could do to change the final outcome.

She left the valley to discover for herself that the people in charge of the government would not be changed and that the final outcome would be total collapse.

None of this affects the point I made that "those on the outside", as Ayn Rand referred to them, those who were not sought out and welcomed individually were NOT invited, and I suspect they would be repelled if they tried to show up. As indicated in the book, the population of the valley all had skills with weapons - they were ready to defend themselves if need be.

sounds good. my first apt as a married couple was in the old UCity HS. all those mansions over by Wash U? Many of them were abandoned still.

University City? Yes, good one. Now I'm the one standing by to stand by. http://www.ucitymo.org/

We'll meet at Pappy's for some BBQ to discuss your plans. lol.

I'll start with Clayton and U City. lol.

We are on the same page, but concerning your last sentence, that seems fine, but what about the quality of the character of the person or group buying the cities? e.g., George "the Emperor" Soros? I don't think any of us would want him to buy up more real estate.

However, if YOU purchase STL, I'd like to be on your team for professional, independent-minded, self-sufficient development for the like-minded citizens. :)

most people vote like stupid idiots. I would say time for a civil war-but I believe we represent a minority. I think the most realistic chance is to let private citizens buy city states as all of the cities fall.

Perhaps but she had an account in the bank. This leads me to suspect she was on the list but didn't reach the point where the invite would make sense.

I totally concur with your bottom line. I think the use of force is the complicated & controversial part. I also believe this is the crux of issue: protecting values & culture from clearly opposite ones without using force.

Separation of Powers is great, but what to do when the people in charge don't respect the Separation? (that boundary thing again) Who slaps them up side the head to remind them of their responsibilities? Based on my short time on this planet, it doesn't seem the "people" have been able to influence those in charge to do the right thing effectively.

I draw the line at force. By force, I include you vote to take something away from me or someone else. The Constitution was originally set up to reject that premise, and to enforce against it with separation of powers. The tools are there, we haven't tried hard enough as a Nation to use the tools put in place to ensure that hasn't/won't happen.

Then we'd still be part of the British Empire?
How is that different from mob rule? It was the author of the Declaration himself that said the Constitution should be rewritten every generation. Should we have sent him packing?

By no means am I about keeping out ideas. But if an idea is one that isn't congruent with the values established & agreed by that enables peaceful & civilized society, then that's when that idea needs to be firmly rejected & the originator given a choice: take your intellectual poison & leave or accept our values. "Coexisting" is not an option. The Christian Lebanese know that cruel fact all too well, as does Bridgett Gabriel.

I just heard someone use the word "clarity" on the news. That's a great word..it explains how AS made me feel. I realized clarity while reading it. I'm using it!

excellent point.

but we can't fence out ideas. everyone has a computer. Think about every little kid watching some Japanese cartoon with heroes, yes, but also with strong doses of altruism and personal sacrifice to the greater good. There's at least one computer in every home. To keep out ideas means totalitarianism and economic stagnation. It just takes a vigilant and vocal minority (like you educating us on Islam) talking about Ideas to influence as well. It's why I wrote a book.

True about the fellers mentioned on being native, but their ideas are not native: While I don't know about TR, I do know that SA was influenced by moron Marx & his butt buddy Engels. Marxism is not native to America. And yes, you're on the mark about losing the intellectual battle which is why we're at where we're at today.

Indeed!

"Understanding their rage fully and standing by the good no matter what the cost."
This tackles that as well... it IS philosophy. What was that I read in FC? (you'll know the exact quote)..about being willing to die for what you believe. Either you stand for evil curtailing your freedoms..or you don't. Both could lead to losing your life...one sooner than the other perhaps... but dying on your feet fighting is a completely different thing than dying on your knees or by the boot on your neck. If you don't have the philosophy you don't know the difference.

I have checked out ETSY but they're only for handmade items... and that's not what I sell. Thanks though. :)

.22 have been very scarce for over a year or more now... something is definitely behind the reasons why. The lack of people at the gun range is one of the results. Less practice/teaching time for kids in particular. Get 'em while they're young.

I dig.
Saul Alinsky was "native." Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Eleanor Roosevelt- all home grown progressives with great influence. They grew up in our culture with American "values." So you are spot on about defending values-but the enemy is everywhere.
I will say as we crawl closer to a police state, it's damned maddening that citizens of this country are overlooked to the preferential treatment of guests invited or uninvited. From the start, we have had immigrants forming communities all over the US. That was not the problem. It was when we started losing the intellectual battle to Americans things changed. Time was immigrants coming in I bet were highly sensitive to fitting and tried to be as American as the next guy. The advent of the prevailing culture turning socialist was homegrown. For immigrants now, they hear President Obama giving preferential lip speak to Muslim communities, illegal aliens, socialism-well to them-that must be a big part of American culture. heck-they just have to turn on a TV.

Well said!

Nope. It was all Palestine, under British mandate.

This brings up a question. How would the Gulch deal with those nefarious forces you mentioned? Even if the borders are closed, people might change or their children or grandchildren may adopt those antithetical ideologies.

We know the Gulch invited in new people who agreed with their philosophy. Did they oust people disagreed with it (and acted on that disagreement)?