Global Ocean Circulation Appears To Be Collapsing Due To A Warming Planet

Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 8 months ago to Science
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This is what a Japanese scientist modeled back in the 90's when he got access to a supercomputer, and he developed a theory specifically that incorporates this and says you got from warming to Ice Ages quickly when the "conveyor" breaks, as the warm water is what keeps Britain and Northern Europe somewhat temperate. His theory was really reflective of what they are describing here, the fresh water changes the density of the ocean and blocks the downward movement and cooling of water. I am trying to find hid original presentation, as he suggested that this is cyclical and normal for our planet.


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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, your statement apparently did not get to the GW scare mongers:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth...

    http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animals...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosph...

    Now, one has to wonder, the story we get is human action has destroyed the planet, killing us all, turning it into a furnace. Yet, my basic education says there have been several "warm/cold" cycles where, during the warm period, there were huge amounts of biomass laying around, rotting (making methane) not to mention a hack of a lot of big animals farting and belching their way to the next snack. The 2 biggest sources of methane I know of are underwater nodules melting and releasing their methane and the "defrosting" of the previously frozen tundra. The same actions must be assumed to have happened in past cycles as I do not see "man made" getting attached to either. So, why is this cycle so much different than any of the previous ones? Am I being a simpleton here? The story makes no sense to me.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Just remember that carbon, carbon dioxide, and methane are three completely different things. The first is not a gas and so cannot be a greenhouse gas. The last two have greenhouse gas properties but differ in properties from each other. Neither has great affect or temperature due to their small concentrations: 1 part in 2500 for CO2 and about 1 part in 500000 CH4.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    All of which have ways to be fixed, power is an ever present issue in regards to generation without impact, but that can be solved too, given a free hand and no government rules and morons.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hmm.. seems like it came out of a book? Anyways, they will start asking for government relief, even though I think there is a federal crop insurance program already.
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  • Posted by 1musictime 7 years, 8 months ago
    John Galt is not believing in global warming climate change,The villain Floyd Ferris more believes in it, or is not, but wants people without knowledge , to believe it's there.John Galt is not wanting to talk to Floyd Ferris.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Even though the graph is off on the sun spot numbers, (much lower now than the high a few years back during a normal 11 year max), he is correct about the strength of the occasional pops..it wasn't that long ago we just missed an X40! but what we have noticed since the weakening of the shields, an X10 would have the same effect now with our weakened shields.

    PS...Ct govern, talking about shutting down Milestone Nuclear Plant...hate to tell em...gona take a few years so they better have power back up to keep the pumps running till the rods cool down enough.
    Maybe they do know or maybe they are just worried about hacks.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Just think...a few states to your east aren't growin anything...the Dakota's on down got late snow, freezing temps, then heavy rains, flooding then a drought...most everything wiped out. A bit lower by Kansas only lost 30% of the wheat in may/june...haven't heard of any other adverse conditions so far except the upper midwest is expecting more cold weather.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yep, Dob, for a place that cannot seemingly find all the pieces of the reactors, as well as what was inside, one has to ask, where did it go? The explosions alone tell you there was a huge release and yet...nothing..

    https://www.whoi.edu/main/topic/fukus...

    here is a really interesting article from someone who says he foretold it, I do know they had a big thing when it happened that they were told a M9 or greater could happen and they disregarded it, I have to find it:

    http://enenews.com/very-chilling-warn...
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh, you are in CT. My wifes family is in New York by the PA border near Scranton (about 2 hrs from there east/northeast) and they have only gotten in about 5,000 bales of hay, when they are normally at 15-20K. All because it is too wet to bale. The grass gre like crazy but won't dry. We have had 5 weeks of 85+ temps and a couple of 105's and no clouds, everything her is brown and stage 3 fire alert, along with heavy smoke...so..you can never get just what you want. I would like some good old fashioned thunderstorms (we rarely see any)... Just hope the 21st is clear, or I am driving like a madman somewhere...
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We've had a lot of cloudy days and either too much rain or not enough, cooler nights but normal day temps for this time of year but I've had some growth...5 years ago, I was in your boat with an abundance.

    Hmmm, where there's smoke there is CO2!...may have helped.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yea, they can be very bad...like wipe out the entire planet bad. Although we could get X rays from the sun. cosmic X rays are much stronger...not to mention, gama rays...which are rare, thankfully; but either way, with a sleepy sun that's not engaged with our magnetosphere, (-25% strength for different reasons) and ionosphere we are even more vulnerable this time around.

    I dislike mysticism's but I will keep my fingers crossed on this one.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi Nickursis,
    This is more important for the oceans.
    "Fukushima has contaminated the entire Pacific Ocean in just five years. This could easily be the worst environmental disaster in human history and it is almost never talked about by politicians, establishment scientists, or the news. It is interesting to note that TEPCO is a subsidiary partner with General Electric (also known as GE), one of the largest companies in the world, which has considerable control over numerous news corporations and politicians alike. Could this possibly explain the lack of news coverage Fukushima has received in the last five years? There is also evidence that GE knew about the poor condition of the Fukushima reactors for decades and did nothing. This led 1,400 Japanese citizens to sue GE for their role in the Fukushima nuclear disaster."http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10...
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, no issue in Oregon, my wife tried raised beds this year and she planted 5 zucchini and had to rip 3 out, she got several shopping bags of them and we couldn't give them away, and they are pricey in the store (about 1.00 a pound). They are like frigging weeds, and go like crazy, especially if you water them daily in the global warming (>90 degree) summer...luckily, a low next week for sprinkles or maybe rain....help to put the fires out, we have heavy smoke in the Willamette Valley from fires in BC.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    True, cosmic ray events are a whole different kettle of fish, although I am not sure what is the bad part about them, do they bring a string of energized particles with them? If so, it must take a long time to travel. I have seen shows on how devastating a cosmic ray hit could be, and that it could erase all life if strong enough and direct.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You would definitely need a flexible mesh that touches the ground for the car...one you could leave on while your driving.

    From what I understand, NASA warning sat's recently put up could only give us 1 hour, maybe, warning of a cosmic ray event...and yes, if you watch your morning news a SS...you'll get a decent amount of time to prepare for a strong solar event.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We will also need to supplement sunlight as well...besides it's lacking of all the necessary frequencies during the GSM, it also will be more cloudy more often as well.

    PS...noticed this year, even with, (finally!) warmer soil, only certain plants are thriving...string beans, lettuce and tomatoes...squash and beats are weak at best...getting the same complaint throughout this area...got to be the lack of certain frequencies of light from the sun that those plants need.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are a lot of things on the web dealing with this, the real issue is finding carbon impregnated material. It is used in ESD applications, can be expensive, and I have not shopped around for it. But you are correct in isolation is the best defense is a Carrington event, which we would have a lot of warning (2-3 days). On panels and such I would isolate rather than ground, while they may charge to their capacitive limit, that will be a lot less than a runaway charging reaction. Look up EMP shielding on Google, you will be overwhelmed with the options and some plain old crazy stuff. Where do you think the tinfoil hat thing came from?
    But your car is also susceptible, I have heard of conductive mesh laid over it will absorb and ground an EMP hit, so you might look at that, or a metal garage may work..
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Transfer perhaps but not store...making the atmosphere warmer. We have always seen higher CO2 in cold climates and decreasing in warm climates...you can look at CO2 climate outlook and it doesn't show up in the tropics on the equator...you see it in the higher latitudes N and S. The troposphere is almost a closed system with little interaction with the stratosphere except within the boundary layer which has a tendency to try and equalize.
    I have been observing that generally, what happens in the troposphere kinda stays in the troposphere and gets either trapped or blown around. In the case of OX and CO2 gets used up by us, animals and green plant life (Which is basically a wash during the day/night exchanges) (including in the water)...that's why it sticks around in winter...got no place to go except storage in snow packs.
    The only thing we see, so far as I have seen, that transverses the atmospheric levels is ozone...Note: my research/learning at this point, is certainly not complete.
    Not to mention, CO2 is a coolant in the ionosphere but that just might be due to it's ability to disperse the electrical charges. That CO2 comes with the solar and cosmic winds and maybe, perhaps ionic boundary layers.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's what I was thinking...faraday function. Carbon works probably the best because of the size of the atoms. Polyethylene has small atoms also but it's something that might be able to be sprayed or used in a "flexible" situation like wires.
    I think in a shielding from an EMP situation we must shield it all because it all is exposed to the atmosphere which would now be in overcharged mode and looking for places to go.

    In the same vein, I wonder if it would help to shut down all grounding possibilities also making the circuit less attractive. My guess is that anything holding a charge and not shielded will be susceptible regardless of whether it is grounded or not.
    It's been suggested that even your solar panels and generator should be unplugged...I don't think they should be grounded...you don't want all that electricity to go to ground and burning everything up on the way like what the carrington event did to the telegraph wires.
    What's your take?
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There is also an issue of salinity, which the cooler water is denser, that is where the trouble starts, normally you would have warm, salty water, but the lighter water from runoff covers it, and so it starts cooling earlier, dropping deeper. The system works on a specific area acting like a funnel, and as the warm salty water cools, it sinks and gets into a southward motion (taking years to get back to where it was in the south. It also brings nutrients along, then starts heating,, starting an up welling to the surface. One reason for things like Sargasso, and large fish herds in the gulf, as the nutrient rich water flows back north . The acidification is a know issue, causing coral reef die offs and bleaching, along with temperature increases. I am not an expert on acidification but here is a wiki article, see what you think:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_a...
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Food has always been a weak link, and consideration should be given to more efficient means, even unorthodox like towers with drip feed that uses gravity to travel down the lanes of plants, with clear sides for sunlight etc...
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, you run into issue with inductive transfer, especially in low energy signals and then it just doesn't work, also most boards and such are specifically insulative so the wires etched into them become the conductors. However, specific carbon laced material would work for a Faraday type protection, maybe.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Since heat is energy in transit by photons, momentum, convection, etc., it cannot be stored. Energy, though it is a relationship between matter, can be considered to be store-able. The temperatures in the atmosphere indicate atoms, molecules, dust, etc. which have motion -- translational, rotational, or vibrational. Unless the air's temperature is purely due to CO2's motions, the N2, O2, and Ar must have gained energy to contribute to the atmospheric temperatures. But those gases do not radiate well, so cooling must be done mostly by greenhouse gases such as CO2 which more easily can absorb heat, including that from those other molecules and atoms by momentum exchange, and more easily radiate it to space in the upper atmosphere. They also help to warm the other gases in the atmosphere along with conduction with the surface and other heat transfer mechanisms.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Also, concepts, language, and even models cannot be reified, i.e., are not any more than mental existents and not physical existents. They are ways of describing objective reality and nothing more. Models are nothing more than hypotheses about some aspects of objective reality and reality must be observed to see whether the models might describe reality correctly.
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