This one quote shows what angry white guys mean when they talk about government overreach

Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 6 months ago to Culture
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An Interesting discussion on a weird topic tha actually meshes deeply to the root of all the social angst we have, as well as an Ayn Rand question. Do you have the right, to modify your truck to "roll coal" or emit heavy black smoke, as a way to express your discontent and outright hatred for a system that imposes it self upon yu? Do you do unto others as they have done unto you? How does perception of wrong, vs actual wrong (and how would you ever determine it?) fit together with today's manipulation and deciet?


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  • Posted by Kittyhawk 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think "a zero-sum struggle between identity groups to wield authoritarian gov't powers to hurt other groups" is the very definition of government itself. Republicans, Democrats, and every other broad or narrow interest group lobbies government to get their needs met at the expense of others.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Terrorism is one area in which the Russians and US could work very closely indeed. The Russians have not forgotten the Chechnyan slaughters, nor are they untouched by the radical Muslims. The Russians are just smart enough not to tolerate ANYTHING Islamic in their nation (though they are more than happy to sell Islamic nations their weapons).
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  • Posted by Storo 7 years, 5 months ago
    First, it doesn’t matter if you have ”the right” to protest via coal rolling. You just do it if you want to. Most protests and protesters don’t look to see if they have the right to protest.
    Until this piece I had never heard of “coal rolling”. Seems to me that if we focus on coal rolling itself, we miss the point.
    Like so many other pieces written about those who are upset at where the country is going, this piece attempts to apply the drive-by media’s standard labels: white male, white nationalism, ethnonationalism, and the like, going so far as to say that at the core of the GOP is White Nationalism. Oh but that it were.
    So what is Black Lives Matter if not populist/socialist/nationalism? What is the LGBT movement if not nationalist and populist? What is La Raza if not an Hispanic nationalist/populist movement? Seems that all these groups and more can be populist or nationalist and it’s OK. But be white, and stand up for your rights and you are suddenly fascist, populist nationalists; the reason is that the leftist populist/nationalists want to classify whites with Nazis and the KKK.
    Most Republicans and nearly all conservatives do, in fact, stand for small government. Most stand for economic freedom, and, yes, the nuclear family and national defense. (Interestingly there was a piece I saw today where a college professor says that the white nuclear family promotes White Supremacy! http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/31/... )
    The media portrays Trump as a white populist/nationalist. Maybe that’s true. If so, is it not an appropriate reaction to Obama’s populist/multicultural globalism? And what makes Trump’s populist nationalism evil and Obama’s good? Again, Nazis and the KKK.
    For 8 years Americans watched while Obama and his minions attacked every traditional value that exist in this country. The message was: Yes, we are going to destroy that, but not for “people of color”, illegal immigrants, the poor, the “under-privileged”, blacks, women, etc., etc. So you take out all of these populist groups and what’s left? White Males. And the writer wonders how our government can adopt this socialist, egalitarian, racist, sexist globalism and not expect some kind of reaction from those who are the targets.
    Both Obama and Hillary Clinton made what is probably the clearest statement ever made by either one when each said they were going to war against coal, and were going to put them out of business. So who works in the Coal Industry? Far and away White Men. So why shouldn’t they respond?
    According to TheAlternativeHypothesis.com those in the economic top 40% of taxpayers in the US, the group which pays 97.7% of taxes paid to the US Government are overwhelmingly white at roughly 77%, and a huge proportion is white men. So why, again, should they not react and respond when they see their tax dollars being used to promote an agenda that ultimately marginalized them in favor of illegal immigrants who take the jobs of the white “working class”, women who take their white collar jobs, other “people of color” who get the bulk of college scholarship money, preferences in hiring and services, and all the rest.
    Coal rolling seems to be just a symbol of white male anger among working whites, primarily because the government HAS been co-opted to favor Other groups against them, they HAVE been ignored and marginalized, and the war on them is being conducted by the political establishment using their own hard earned money.
    What they should do is go Galt.

    I must, for the record, correct a statement made in the piece. As a founding member of the Tea Party, I can state without qualification that the Tea Party was NOT formed as a result of Obama’s election, but was a grass root reaction to the continuous failure of the entire government to address the country’s financial problems - the national debt and deficit spending. It was only in the sense that Obama’s populist agenda to “spread the wealth around”, and that at public expense, was seen as additional deficit spending was the Tea Party anti-Obama. However, the people who support the Tea Party were and still are equally opposed to deficit spending and increased national debt under George W Bush, and will also be opposed to such policies under Donald Trump.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    For 11 months we have listened to Russia Russia Russia! - only to see it show up as a "break glass in case of emergency charge" from basically from 8 years ago, a spun-up money laundering charge over-amped into a "conspiracy against the United States" for leaving money earned overseas in an offshore account, and it's "pro-Russian" Ukrainian government elements, not "Russia Russia Russia"... at a time when we were technically arming Ukraine.

    And when did we become sworn enemies of Russia anyway? The Cold War ended in 1989, and while they have a scheming foreign policy - so do we.. hell, Obama was actively engineering the Israeli election to oust Netanyahu because he wouldn't play ball with the Iranian deal.

    My long memory recalls when the dems and Hillary were hugging Russia with a "reset button", and Hillary was approving strategic commodity sales (uranium) to a Russian owned corporation while her husband pulled in a million-dollar speaking fee 24 hours later... The only reason I can actually see that the Russians would NOT want Hillary as president is because it might have gotten expensive having to buy her smile or signature at a million dollars a pop. Let's be honest, she was a political vending machine, there is not much to not like about that if you are a special interest or foreign power...

    Having been a Cold Warrior, I can speak from experience the Russians are very much like the US. They value their families, they value their culture, and they want to keep on living their lives. It's what navigated us through the Cold War. They don't necessarily agree with our viewpoints (very often), but they respect our right to exist and when push comes to shove, we can make a deal with them. Above all, they really do value stability around the world, and good or bad (for them), a strong United States equals world stability and economic growth. The world has lurched for 16 years through the strongest organized fighting force in the history of the planet (the US military) struggling to defeat rag tag bands of fanatics hiding in caves with RPGs, an obscene growth and reach of US intelligence, and the growth of a corrupt political class.

    Maybe, just maybe, they were doing the world a favor by deciding that "enough was enough".

    The sure-fire way to end the global war on terrorism, is if American, Chinese, and Russian forces worked together to end this. Russia has not been "untouched" by terrorism either, and it's economy still needs rebuilding. It's very possible their goals and interests are not "evil" in their intent. These problems have basically cropped up following the collapse of colonialism and the strong spheres of influence of the Cold War.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I fear you may be correct. The one mitigating factor I take some small comfort in if that does happen is that most of those advocating for war are those who chose to disarm themselves.
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  • Posted by 1musictime 7 years, 5 months ago
    Are their laws to restrict white guys and white guys are not with suppositions to have anger toward white guys? Is a white guy a wise guy to certain people?
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  • Posted by 1musictime 7 years, 5 months ago
    What is a white guy? Who is a white guy? Who are white guys? What are white guys? Where is it starting? Are they at group meetings?Is it a way to interrupt computer writings and meetings?Where is one to locate white guys?If one is not the color, is it pollution?Is it ethnic, racial, political, and vehicle pertaining?
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  • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yeah, I was pretty disgusted with it myself. Shocking to see how far apart we are from the other side. I keep thinking this is going to descend into a second civil war sooner or later.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How do you like your 3500? I need to get something in a few years w/ a dually for retirement, we'll be pulling a 46 foot Voltage 5th wheel (about 17,000 lbs loaded) around - will spend the first 6 months in British Columbia, Yukon, and Alaska with it actually - and I'll spend most of that hunting :)! . The 3500 dually is the one I'm generally considering and budgeting for.

    I tow a 30' ultra-lite travel trailer right now (much lighter - probably 6,000 lbs), so it's not an issue right now and I didn't want to daily-drive a dually, but I'll need the dual wheels and bed payload for the retirement setup. I have a Ram right now, love everything about it, except the dumb trailer mirror setup - it's either 3 feet out with the ghost-trailer look, or completely useless when folded in.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    San Francisco with it's grid-locked traffic and generally junky-looking urban-dweller transports called a 'car', is generally exempted from emissions control. They do get checked, but the test results & standards they have to meet are much, much lower than the rest of California.

    Why? Because the offshore winds blow their shit into the Central Valley... so the Central Valley residents have much higher standards to meet because their air quality is so poor. The voters in the Central Valley are also generally more Republican (actually California is very, very red if you take off San Francisco, Sacramento, and Los Angeles). There are people that also keep a mailbox account in Alpine or Modoc County or some other non-populated area, just to register their car there and avoid the smog standards.

    But the libs have always taken a "do as I say, not as I do".
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't know but I have seen perfectly good cars with no issues fail in Portland, Oregon. Pisses people off too..
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I wonder about the measurable pollution level of those that are less than 20 years old. I know that one '99 with a malfunctioning cat can still pass emissions outside CA. Those are not in the same pollution class compared to these protesters. Noise pollution levels, perhaps in a few;^)
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  • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    they didn't mention all the rice burners driving around with the catalytic converter deleted, cold air intakes, and can-mufflers.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because anything not done by a SJW is apparently the province of "racist, bigoted, white supremacist white guys". Who they are? Everyone not registered Democrat.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have a Dodge 3500 Cummings, and it never occurred to me that making smoke like that would be a "protest". I am picky, I try to keep my truck FROM smoking.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 5 months ago
    I nearly vomited trying to read the nonsense in this article. It is so obviously a piece from someone who wishes this was an accurate reflection of reality that it makes me gag to think that people can delude themselves to this point.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I look at the Republican Party and see anything but conformity, which is why the broad-brushed strokes ring very hollow to me. You have the Freedom Coalition, the Old Guard, and the RINO's at the very least, with a smattering of libertarians. And it is the RINO's - those who continuously side with the Democrats (like Murkowski, McCain, and Collins) - who are the ones who promote the zero-sum game you talk about because that is what the Democrats push as well.

    The Democrats - on the other hand - are monolithic and consumed by lust for power. The revelations about the Uranium One deal now implicate everyone with any power during the Obama Administration for outright treason.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 5 months ago
    Of course, the people regulators will examine anything that's fun and seek to ban it. There is room for naughty. By that I mean the childish pranks that adults often play to get a thrill or a laugh. Note the word childish. So what if a person wants to act like a kid, so long as any damage is minor and kept to an individual. When I was a kid (pre teen) we'd fill a brown paper bag up with dog poop and set it on fire on the person to be tormented's front porch. If things went as planned, he'd stomp the fire out with his foot and carry the poop indoors. Naughty? Yes. Nasty? Perhaps. But it was a howl.Black smoke? Pfffft. Got off easy. I spent two years of Halloween in Worcester, MA. Those kids went for the jugular. They poured home made library paste all over a guy's car and then covered it with confetti. It washed off, but I heard some new expletives that November 1st. Childish pranks, but also an expression of freedom and the punishment when caught was doled out by secretly amused parents.I can hear Grandpa now, "Ay-Yi Herbie.Doing nasty pranks. Is this a Jewish occupation? Shame on you." We don't need another stinkin' law.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Or California’s war on and destruction of the timber industry, so now we burn millions of acres a year in wildfires.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, diesel soot is heavy and falls to the ground immediately. Gasoline emissions are fine particulates that get swept up into the atmosphere. The soot actually pollutes much less.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I was trying to figure that out myself. I’ve seen black guys do it, not a lot of Latinos buy diesels, they go for the used Chevy ¾ ton Vortec (cheaper). I’m not personally going to modify my $75,000 truck, so I guess I’m a white guy that won’t.

    Just another article portraying people in the Midwest or South as ‘idiots’, like their panic over the Whitefish Energy thing and $462/ hr. I kind of laughed at that one too (linemen do actually earn that much in most disasters). Whitefish is also a small business, and preferred under the laws that liberals crafted. It’s as if they are shocked that a small business in Montana could win against high margin / high overhead competitors.

    I think it’s passive aggressiveness - these types are pissy because they struggle to make their Prius payment, and big diesel trucks are expensive... I’m at a loss.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Here's the problem: so long as we continue to regard "the air" as a common, we will deal with the tragedy, or the tyranny, of the common.

    Wanted: a means by which to define property rights, and damages, relating to pollution of air, land and water. Land is the easiest to define; water next; air hardest of all. Difficult, but scarcely impossible.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 7 years, 5 months ago
    Under the Common Law you could do whatever you want, so long as it does not leave your property. Put the truck in the garage. Smoke it up. When done, have somebody air out the place with filters to remove the smoke. Simple. Getting rid of your body because you remained in the truck is tougher.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for the sober commentary.
    "the "Republicans" may not all endorse the stupidity behind rolling coal"
    Yes. I agree. The important claim of this article is not about blowing black smoke but that Republicans stand for a zero-sum struggle between identity groups to wield authoritarian gov't powers to hurt other groups. That's why I say the article reads like Democratic propaganda, but it also rings true. I don't mean the coal stuff but rather President Trump speaking on policy issues.

    President Trump's supporters who are not his redneck idiot base say those of us who think that have been manipulated by the media who try to sabotage Trump by wrongly associating him with racism, nationalism, etc. Okay. If that's true the media are doing a good job of it. The tie to rolling coal is a stretch for me, but the conclusion seems true.
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