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Jason Brennan Joins the Brigade of People Misrepresenting Ayn Rand’s Views

Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
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" blog post by Jason Brennan of Bleeding Heart Libertarians, in which Brennan claims (among other things) that Rand and Objectivists are, according to the implications of ethical egoism, “committed to the view that you should rape, dismember, and murder others when it serves your interests.” Of course, Brennan does not and cannot quote Rand saying or implying this or anything of the sort. Nor does he or can he get around the fact that the implications of Rand’s ethics are precisely the opposite of what he claims them to be—as Rand herself made clear."

Is this going to be Objectivists battle for ever? Or is it a major indicator of the successes of AR's philosophy?


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  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • -1
    Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 9 months ago
    "Atlas Shrugged" is being interpreted like the bible and a bunch of other holy books.

    And that interpretation always serves the self interest of the true believers doing the interpreting, which isn't necessarily the same as those true believers over there.
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  • Posted by mjsmolens 10 years, 9 months ago
    I think we are still in a cultural where any mention of Rand's name is good news. The expression of the views you show are so outlandish that thinking people would just be more intrigued and seek out the facts.
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  • 14
    Posted by salta 10 years, 9 months ago
    The problem with Rand's critics is they mostly read other critics, instead of Rand's own work. This problem could be expected to be worse in the modern "blogging" culture than in the days when people had to get their opinions into printed hard copy.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, that's exactly how it appears. I think the problem is that he doesn't understand physics and better than he does Objectivism.
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  • Posted by Solver 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So summarizing everything above he claims,,
    That the basic axiom, "A is A" (or a thing is itself) is wrong because of some discovery's in quantum science.
    Government (forced) science "progresses" better than non-government (voluntary) science.

    And these prove Objectivism needs to be misrepresented by any means necessary.
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  • Posted by Solver 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Absolutely. Provide specific concrete true facts, or real and complete scientific evidence, and I can definitely change my mind about something I believe.

    Who wouldn't? (strangely, a rhetorical question)
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, I think Objectivist are making headway on spreading the message and it's resonating. And it does frighten those relying on the moocher system.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you are so strongly anti-AR, why are you participating in this post or are you just attempting to confuse and cause controversy?
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And what does that have to do with the questions of the post. Brennan's arguments were properly refuted, were they not?
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Robbie; The intent of the question was to ask if the attacks on AR are a sign of the successes of the messages of Objectivism gaining traction in todays world. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

    As to your comment, I think you're mixing up the concept of a philosophy with historical practices of those without much of a philosophy or a sound ethic. Looters have been prevalent in our history since we became sentient and probably before, but that's the animalistic nature of our development, not a workable, moral, and sane practice for the individual or society.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Robbie, could you please expand on your assertion about the dichotomy you think Ayn Rand overlooked? Can you quote where you think she made this "astounding" oversight?
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
    It is not an indicator of success. When one says that non-aggression is the only rational morality when history demonstrates that this is not true, it is going to be an uphill battle. The problem is that non-aggression is the only morality for the whole, when use of force by the individual is and has been beneficial for the individual and small groups aligned with the individual, for time immemorial. And we operate as individuals, not as societies, or the whole (and Objectivism is focused on the individual not the collective). How AR could miss this easily observable dichotomy is astounding.
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  • -4
    Posted by Maphesdus 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Regarding the point about denying science, Ayn Rand did seem to have very big objections to quantum physics, as the entire field does call into question Aristotle's famous Law of Identity (A = A), which states that "the same attribute cannot at the same time belong and not belong to the same subject in the same respect." Ayn Rand was very fond of this principle, and it obviously forms one of the central pillar of her ideology. Unfortunately, Aristotle's axiom — like the equations of Issac Newton — was only correct within the physical scale of normal, everyday human experience. It utterly failed to accurately describe the physics and behavior of things that are very, very small (atoms and quarks), and also things that are very, very large (planets, solar systems, and galaxies).

    When people accuse Ayn Rand of denying science, what they mean is that she clung desperately to classical Newtonian mechanics, completely rejecting quantum mechanics. Now of course Newtonian mechanics is obviously a legitimate field of science, which is why Objectivsts are technically correct in their claim that Ayn Rand did not reject science. However, to continually hold on to the old theories and the old equations, even when they can no longer accurately describe the observed phenomena of the atomic universe, well, that's not the path to scientific progress. In fact, it's the exact opposite of progress. It's the path to intellectual damnation. It's closing the door on new knowledge.

    There's an excellent book about quantum mechanics which I believe everyone here should read, titled "The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates," by Howard Bloom:
    http://www.amazon.com/The-God-Problem-Go...

    And yes, Howard Bloom does specifically mention Ayn Rand in that book, and directly addresses her theories. Anyone who considers themselves a serious student of Objectivist philosophy should read this book.

    On top of that, Ayn Rand also opposed government funding of scientific research, believing that if such research were supported with government funds, it would progress at a slower rate than if it were privately funded. Not only does that line of reasoning not make any logical sense, it doesn't even have any proof to support it. In fact, all historical evidence points to the exact opposite: that the biggest scientific advancements and technological breakthroughs have always come out of government-funded laboratories. Here's an article with just a few examples:

    7 great government-backed inventions:
    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/tech...

    Now consider the following two quotes. The first is an excerpt from Atlas Shrugged, while the second is a quote from Neil DeGrasse Tyson:
    ____________________________________
    "I’ll tell you, if you wish. It’s the truth that you want, isn’t it? Dr. Ferris cannot help it, if the morons who vote the funds for this Institute insist on what they call results. They are incapable of conceiving of such a thing as abstract science. They can judge it only in terms of the latest gadget it has produced for them. [...] People have been criticizing the Institute, because, they say, we have not produced enough. The public has been demanding economy. In times like these, when their fat little comforts are threatened, you may be sure that science is the first thing man will sacrifice. There are practically no private research foundations any longer. [...]
    If you consider that for thirteen years this Institute has had a department of metallurgical research, which has cost over twenty million dollars and has produced nothing but a new silver polish and a new anti-corrosive preparation which, I believe, is not so good as the old ones – you can imagine what the public reaction will be if some private individual comes out with a product that revolutionizes the entire science of metallurgy and proves to be sensationally successful!"
    — Dr. Robert Stadler, "Atlas Shrugged," part I, chapter VII, p.180

    ____________________________________
    "Also in that decade [the 1920s], quantum mechanics, quantum physics, was discovered. That is the science of the small. The science of electrons, protons, neutrons, particles, nuclei. At the time you'd say, 'This is just physicists burning tax money. Cuz' who cares about the atom? I got my horse to feed. I got kids. I got... you know, you got issues in society.' Yet it's quantum mechanics that is the entire foundation of our technological revolution. There would be no computers, there would be no... there would be none of what you take for granted, your iPod, your iPhone, cell phones, the space program, without our understanding of the laws of physics as they operate on that atomic, molecular, and nuclear level. And so the chemist has no understanding of the periodic table of elements without quantum mechanics. To them it's just a list of elements. Quantum mechanics tells you why this column is there, and that's there, why this mates with that, and why that makes a molecule with that. That's quantum mechanics, and it's unheralded. You ask me if there's any discovery that has changed how we live, it is quantum mechanics. And I make... I make this point, because I'm ready to... [stomps foot]. Today you hear people say 'Why are we spending money up there when we've got problems on Earth?' And people don't CONNECT the time delay between the frontier of scientific research and how that's gonna transform your life later down the line. All they want is a quarterly report that shows a product that comes out of it. That is so short sighted, that that's the beginning of the end of your culture."
    — Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Interview with Stephen Colbert at Montclair Kimberley Academy, Jan. 29, 2010

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXh9RQCv...
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "would this guy change his own mind if confronted with facts or will he ignore facts and continue to evade reality"
    I just read the article, planning to guess the answer. I think he may be saying that you can derive that it's okay to use force from objectivist premises. I can't state objectivist premises. I just like the two books I've read. I'm not smart enough on this topic to argue with the blog post author.
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  • Posted by Solver 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Question is, would this guy change his own mind if confronted with facts or will he ignore facts and continue to evade reality?
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I like the few articles I've read there, but he's wrong IMHO on this point. We simply don't believe it's right to use force for just to promote our own interests. We're the ones saying the opposite.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago
    "Every so often, people hostile to Ayn Rand’s ideas try to attack them by saying that Rand said or implied something she never said or implied"
    The only thing I disagree with is it's not every so often, it's all the time.

    Outside a pro-Rand article/forum, I almost NEVER have heard someone mention Rand w/o getting something radically wrong.

    People say Ayn Rand's heroes are rich and famous, never people (like Roark) struggling to pay rent because they put their principles ahead of profits.

    If you come to a forum like this, I'd guess roughly half the posts get it wrong (compared to my interpretation of the two books I read): valuing normal over exceptional; opposing helping people categorically; fear of outsiders; putting politics ahead of hard work; opposing some mutually-agreed trades; denying science; blaming failures on others.
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  • -1
    Posted by Maphesdus 10 years, 9 months ago
    Bleeding Heart Libertarians are best Libertarians. <3
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