"I always thought of marriage as some sort of religious ritual , but then the government got into it forcing people to abide by their rules."

And that's precisely what it was, too. Following the Civil War, the South wanted to prevent interracial marriages, so they passed laws stating that all marriages had to have a marriage license from the local county. Then the counties could deny licenses (and they also started denying them for close relations). They also saw it as a revenue source, and I've never met a bureaucrat who didn't like collecting money!

We can eliminate the entire "gay marriage" controversy simply by acknowledging that government has no granted authority at either the State or Federal level to interfere with marriage (and this should have been the verdict of the Obergfell decision). Let the various religions choose to recognize each others' ceremonies or not.

And that is the crux of the matter. As soon as we declare someone's feelings to be more important than someone's rights, liberty flies out the window.

Absolutely your right. I am not sure why gay people (or anyone actually) want government sanctioned marriage in the first place with all the rules and rregulations. Just live together if you want. I never even saw my parents marriage certificate, nor did I care if they were officially married or not.
I always thought of marriage as some sort of religious ritual , but then the government got into it forcing people to abide by their rules. Thats when I decided marriage as defined today is just not worth it.

Could I sue, if I asked Walmart to bake me a cake, with the Confederate flag on it, and they refused?
Actually, I don't need to pick on Walmart, but I don't believe Target has a bakery.

I don't know what Alibaba is but it sounds like a middle eastern concern and to the best of my knowledge homosexuality is highly frowned upon there. Most folks who want a hand made item want something no one else has.
I suppose we all should think about this because it sure could happen. How will you handle the first time you are invited to a gay wedding? My wife works with a gay man who is well above her in the food chain and she loves him. When/if he marries his partner she can certainly attend if she wants to but it will be without me. I do happen to like both of them but I don't believe in gay marriages, My Right.

And that should be our right, to a certain extent...the right to do or not to, do business with someone...ethical and moral judgements should always rule our behaviors, based upon a set of values and principles universally acknowledged.

I wouldn't hold my breath though, it is certainly not likely in this anticivilized period we live in.

Go bake you're own friggin' cake.The right to say NO is paramount in a free society. No to everything and anything, whether it is good for you or bad. It is your life and the only one who can tell you how to run it is you. Not any person, group, government agency or religious reformer. In the case of the baker, if he is willing to lose the entire homosexual contingency then, so be it. The word no is attached to the consequences a the word.

If you have a business that is open to the public, you must provide your goods and services to all equally. Period. This is not that hard. There is no exception for your political or religious beliefs. Period. You do not have the "right" to discriminate based on your beliefs. The very idea that one would be allowed to discriminate based on religious beliefs in the United States would make Jefferson & Adams turn in their respective graves. Period.

Probably dildo lamps are available on Alibaba anyway at a cheap price. Not worth it to make one here.

The supreme court should NOT demand that we make things we dont want to make, period. If they allow this case, you would have to agree to make the nazi lamp, or maybe something for ISIS.

I don't believe baking the cake was either the issue or the result of this law suit. The baker would have sold them a cake or any other baked goods in his shop but he drew the line at decorating said cake in a gay theme using his artistic talents.
No! I would not make a NAZI anything but I sure have made some Christian Crosses.

Why hasn't a gay entrepreneur person or group formed a registry for bakers, photographers or whatever other services required for gay weddings? I suspect there is info out there for those services. The gaystapo just wants push back against the rest of the world.

I dont think I would want to sell Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton anything at all. In fact, I would rather NOT sell anything at all to someone who voted for Hillary in 2016.

If the couple prevails, should we now demand of Amazon to sell anti gay paraphernalia? There is no difference between each case. These larger organizations who are supporting the couple may want to rethink their positions.

If the gay couple wins, we all lose because a simple cake is not the end of it. What about an ISIS member coming in and wanting someone to make an effigy of Trump hanging from a rope. Would a craftsman HAVE to make that for him then?

If the gay couple loses the case, they can go to another baker. I would be happy to bake them a cake- whats the harm in that?

HA! You should not understand the significance of the Black Ebony either. I actually was asked to make that lamp and I did refuse. I don't do Dildo lamps, black or white!

Even accepting this case to make a ruling has determined what the court thinks it should be involved in something it has no right being involved in. If they don't rule against the baker this time it will happen next time. I am against prejudice for the sake of prejudice but would allow it to exist for it would tell me that people are free to choose how they will live their lives and how I will deal with them. I would rather a racist post a sign on his restaurant declaring which race he did not want in his establishment. I would not patronize him. I do not like that I might patronize someone who is racist because I am unaware because he serves everyone because he has to. As far as the question 'are we enslaved.' Yes. This is just another of the millions of regulations we must comply with. Whether I support abortion or not does not matter, I must pay for it. We have a nation of slavers who are glad to find employ in riveting the chains upon our necks by working for the myriad of bureaucracies supplying endless regulations telling us whether we can work, have a business or if we can use a vehicle, all of which must be licensed and permitted by the state or we will find ourselves at the business end of a gun. The idea of a 'free' America died almost at its birth.

Interesting. I think its your right to spend your time and effort the way you want.

I think pretty much everyone has a line they wont cross. What about a lamp in the form of a NAZI insignia, with perhaps a hand carved partially dismembered head of a jew as part of it. I bete a LOT of people would draw the line there.

Personally, I would bake a gay person a cake. Whats the harm in that really? I dont get it.

The end of custom cake making could be shortly upon us. Buy a standard cake and add the appropriate decorations yourself. Maybe there is a new market just for the decorations, but NOT the actual baking of the cake.

I agree with your post completely. But, I do not understand the significance of "white pine".

The question ultimately has to be "How far do I have to go attempting not to offend?" If a radical Muslim came to me and demanded a birthday cake depicting his son as a suicide bomber, should I be forced to comply? Personally, not only would I offend by refusing, but would compound my "offense" by reporting him to the police.

I offend regularly by connecting the dots between homosexuals and the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). Every practicing homosexual I've spoken to admits to having been introduced to the lifestyle by an older male, so to me the connection is obvious, even if adult homosexuals aren't attracted to minor males. NAMBLA is an equal opportunity perversion society, also endorsing pedophelia in general. A guy or gal who likes little boys/girls? Welcome aboard.

We still regard polygamy as illegal in the U.S., but we do find some institutions that turn a blind eye to Muslims who practice the multiple wife family. I don't think there's been a case defending the practice on religious grounds since the mainstream Mormons abandoned the system, but I have no doubt progressive judges will tie themselves in knots to rule in favor of a Muslim petitioner. Would this be a case where the offender is the justice system itself?

If the gay couple does in fact win in the courts then I suggest we all go in to Muslim or even Jewish bake shops and demand them to make us baked goods using pork fat we provide.
I built a lot of custom furniture pieces and many for gay couples with not a single issue. However, if a gay couple had requested that I build them some sort of special hand carved lamp in the shape of a penis using black ebony I would have said no. I just don't care what they do in the privacy of their own homes but I refuse to assist them in their sexual expressions or endeavors. I would not build the lamp for a straight couple using White Pine either.

It is interesting that in this case as almost every other case like this the merchant talks about freedom of religion. The real case here is freedom of association. Apparently the federal government feels that just because you put up a shingle and go in to business, you all of a sudden loose your freedom of association. The freedom of association is pretty clear in the constitution, but Heart of Atlanta Motel V United States has perverted freedom of association so much that we have to hear people using the freedom of religion argument, which is akin to going whining to Mommy when you don't get the answer you want.

"If the gay couple loses this case, what do they actually lose?"

"If the baker loses the case, what does he stand to lose?"

Precisely.

To Quote Howard Roark: "“That’s not the point. The point is, who will stop me?”

Rand, Ayn. The Fountainhead (p. 11). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

I think we are going to find out if we have reached the point where there is someone to stop you.