I would say that people still try things that they HOPE can work. They dont do things they know WONT work. When it comes to socialism, it appears at least to me, they dont want to abandon the possibility and hope that it could work- probably because of an emotional attraction to the idea of it.

We fight on the basis of reason; but they decide on the basis of emotion, and the two paths dont cross. Giving up socialism means a distinctly dire emotional result is a sure thing for them.

I would agree in principle that education is required as an ultimate solution, but we seem to be losing that battle. We argue on the basis of reason, and they ignore that and go by emotion.

Doesnt that mean that we have to change our tactics a bit and appeal on a more emotional basis to get their attention? The emotions caused by lack of food, unsafe neighborhoods, and general economic collapse perhaps are more powerful than arguments based on reason, as they were in AS.

If we ever want to change the direction of the world, I think AR had it pretty much right in that collapse is needed as a precursor. John Galt said "I am going to STOP the motor of the world..." as I remember. He didnt say he was going to not keep it running any more.

I think the fire fighters know what they are doing.

Agreed. I guess we'll track the progress of the fire to see if the tactic worked.

I would make one minor amendment: we don't need to "help destroy the current country". We merely need to do nothing to stop it, AS-style. ;)

Even at that, however, my point still stands: people keep continuing to try things we know will not work. Why? Because they rebel against sound principles. It is the universal challenge of every individual who lives, which is why the same problems keep coming back up despite historical failure. So at best a collapse and rebuild is a temporary fix. Ultimately, only education about proper principles from generation to generation can produce a long-lasting solution.

I would hope you are right. certainly one would like to see much more to draw a firm conclusion.

It looks like they are adding to the existing fire.

My pleasure.

Certainly no firm evidence but very interesting.

Yes. I couldn't say but the fire is already going pretty good.

This whole issue has indeed troubled me. For some pretty stupid reason, it appears to be almost inherent in human nature to drift towards leaders, power, and the hope tht government will take care of them. Reason and logic seems powerless to stop this trend.

America was formed by a group of very adventurous people who wanted more freedom than the king of england was willing to grant, and they came to a far away place too far from the motherland to be subjugated. It was a unique set of circumstances, and enough of them were successful in creating a country out of wilderness (and not really by granting the local indians THEIR rights...)

America was very intellectually divided even then, and talked about human rights, but didnt consistently uphold them. The leaders had slaves, and when the south wanted OUT, they were destroyed by the 'freedom loving" north.

If we gulchers tried to do this today, based on reason and intellectual consistency, it couldnt happen UNTIL the powers that be were rendered powerless by their own economic and military collapse. Otherwise, our little "country" would be squashed in short order by the establishment forces.

If this logic is correct, the only way we are going to get anywhere is to follow the path of AS, and help destroy the current country in hopes that people can eventually see the folly of collectivism, or at least not be able to stop the rise of individualism. Writing books like AS really did very little, while the people are getting goodies from the government. Make those goodies stop, and those people might still want collectivism, but when its not feeding them they might start thinking a bit.

Well said. But if that actually worked, you would have thought that California - or Greece or Venezuela or any number of other countries - would have figured that out by now. The sad fact - as brilliantly illustrated in Atlas Shrugged is that instead of learning from their political mistakes, the ideological (rather than the rational) tend to double down.

Maybe setting a back fire politically, by backing really out there socialist political candidates and helping them win, would help burn out collectivism.

Elect that Cortez lady- she would make such stupid decisions that things would blow up in her face and take some of her ideology with it. An idea anyway. Nothing else seems to stem the tide of the socialist political fire.

Thanks for the memory of that music.

Could be there's a (hidden) road just upwind of where they're lighting the back-fire, so they can get in an work it.

That is what I thought...the only thing that makes sense.

This is a back burn - a method of fighting fires where you start a fire in a controlled area to burn into the uncontrolled fire, depriving it of fuel. This isn't uncommon or underhanded at all. The only problem would be if they didn't prep the controlled area properly or if the wind shifts unpredictably and the back burn becomes part of the problem - not the solution.

I’ve read about creating back fires to burn out the fuel, but usually there is a fire break on the other side. Maybe they jumped the gun. Forgot to create the fire
Break first? With Cali who knows?!?

That is difficult to believe if I had not seen it with my eyes.

But politicians are capable of ANYTHING., especially one like Moonbeam.

He has been a looter for government "help" from the beginning, to the extent of billions of dollars. Take the high speed train, his costly obsession that everyone is against but him. He is counting on the government to foot most of the bill.

Me dino never heard of an arsonist chopper crew being hired by any state's government either.
There's always that first time, though.

I have never heard of one using a helicopter.

Fire is really good at that.
Arsonists even like droughts here in Sweet Home Alabama.

Now you are being Pollitically correct.
Correct that is about clowns and moonbeam.
BTW I think it is to burn the trees.

Where anything Moonbeam is concerned, me dino would have expected something more like this~
https://genius.com/Stephen-sondheim-s...

Have you ever watched a moonbeam
As it slid across your windowpane
Or struggled with a bit of rain
Or danced about the weather vane
Or sat along a moving train
And wondered where the train has been
Or on a fence with bits of crap
Around its bottom
Blown there by a wind beam
Who searches for the moonbeam
Who was last seen
Looking at the tracks
Of the careless wind beam
Or moving to the clacks
Of the tireless freight train
And lighting up the sides
Of the weather vane
And the bits of rain
And the windowpane
And the eyes of those
Who think they saw what happened...
Have you ever watched a moonbeam

https://youtu.be/btyelrNYCtU

With a possible motive now linked into me dino's widdle brain, I wonder if the soft glow of a Moonbean could shed any light on whatever that chopper crew is up to.