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To Mooch or Not To Mooch?

Posted by strugatsky 6 years, 2 months ago to Ask the Gulch
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In a society where most work, produce and don't mooch, the moral choice to be a producer is an easy one. But picture a society where the majority steal, cheat, mooch, and rarely produce. Perhaps like in Atlas Shrugged America or today's America. In the Atlas case, the moral solution was an escape. To the best of my knowledge (or perhaps abilities), this is not possible here and now. So, what is the morally correct action - to continue to produce to prop up and support the moochers, or join the moochers? Maybe not morally, but in actions, for any other choices do not seem possible. Or are they? Thoughts?


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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 6 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    On philosophical grounds, you have to make a determination of whether or not the looters and moochers are annoying pests or a serious distraction to your productivity. Atlas Shrugged refers to looters on your back. This implies that the looter is more than a mosquito-like annoying nuisance. In most cases, I find that a little bug repellent is sufficient.
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  • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Did I? What is the moral choice? This is a philosophical question, not a question of my decision.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You have already decided to reject the moral course for the safe choice of serfdom. No point in further discussion.
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  • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't think it's realistic or even prudent for most people to start a business in another country. Having traveled a bit myself, I believe that an average American will be cleaned out in most countries in a very short time. Not only are the legal rules different, but the human interactions are completely different. An American in most of the world is seen as a credit card stuffed tit that needs to be milked until dry. Just my advise for anyone contemplating an investment in other countries. Perhaps if one has family in the other country, knows the language and is familiar with the culture, there might be a chance. Or if you're part of a large corporation that has hired the best local lawyers to advise and protect itself. Also, the tax and regulation structure in other countries is often worse than the US, just structured differently.

    But I am very interested in the theoretical solution to my question - what is the moral thing to do, if only the two choices are available? Even if the solution is not perfect (I don't expect it to be), which is the lesser of the two evils?
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  • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You have the choice of starting a business, too. It may be difficult but it is another choice and it can be done outside the USA in lower tax regime. There are other costs instead of taxes, but they are mostly voluntary costs. The strikers moved to another regime. If it is important to you, you can do the same, although the rules will be very different from the ones in the US. There are trade-offs. The free market is not as orderly as a cartel. To get liberty you will have to deal with other issues and complications.
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  • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As an individual, who is not a business owner, one has only two choices - to continue to work and “donate” much of the earnings to support others, often lavishly, or to quit and mooch off the ones that haven’t quit yet. The moral high ground of “continue to produce regardless of others” is an inequitable position, as it is utterly unfair to voluntarily enslave yourself. As it is utterly unfair to enslave others by mooching off of them. So what is the answer, which I suspect is somewhere in middle?
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  • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 2 months ago
    Large corporations move their IP to low tax jurisdictions just as they move their manufacturing to low labor jurisdictions. The moral thing to do is to reduce to a minimum the amount of your production that is looted. In a way that is what the strikers did in AS.
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  • Posted by 6 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Being financially able solves a lot of life’s problems. However, even as a philosophical exercise, what should one do, on moral grounds?
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 6 years, 2 months ago
    If you are financially able, retirement (the Dan Conway option) is a reasonable option.

    But for me, even though at age 52, I am financially able to retire, I would be bored to death.

    Although there are many moochers left in America and I refused to produce during the Obama era, I have found a home in Melbourne, Florida where there are very few moochers and not many looters. Moreover, we barely were able to keep the looters and moochers from elsewhere in the state and country at bay, so overall, I am in as healthy an economic climate as I am in a weather climate. It's not perfect. For example, today it is lightly drizzling, and economically, we have our occasional setbacks, too. However, overall, if you choose to evade the looters and moochers by moving here, you will be in a very hospitable place in every way.

    For instance, we had a Maker Faire in nearby Palm Bay yesterday. Maker faires are events where you see robots, 3D printers, and lots of future John Galts. If there were a real Galt's Gulch, maker faires would be a very popular festival. I was recruiting future Galts for Florida Tech and showing off our privately funded makerspace education initiative.

    After the faire, I went back to the lab and found an Arabic student of mine who is a worthy apprentice as an engineer, but also an entrepreneur. He and two others had pitched me a couple of months ago on a company idea that is merit-worthy but not quite ready for the venture capitalists. They have identified their market need well, but not established sufficient barriers to entry for competitors nor have they put together a detailed business plan. Ten minutes of our mentoring conversation was about establishing barriers to competitors' entry. He already understands well the philosophy necessary to prosper very well.

    After the Arabic student and I discussed the computer code we are writing to accompany our hazardous operability study of my tissue engineering test bed research project that will be the initial product of a new company I am starting, he made a well thought out offer to become a minor partner in my company. In addition to the expected sweat/mind equity, he told me that instead of the usual graduation gift of a car that many students ask for upon graduation, he was making an elevator pitch to his (very wealthy) parents for a loan (not a gift) to help kickstart the company's future.

    I am considering him for this year's Francisco D'Anconia award for my Nanotechnology Minor Program, but ... he has some pretty stiff competition.

    Needless to say, I am optimistic.
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