Trump and Ojectivism
Posted by Tavolino 5 years, 8 months ago to Government
Trump and Objectivism
I’m puzzled by the formal Objectivist movement (ARI, TOS) and their complete disdain for President Trump. From the beginning they have never missed a chance not only to distance themselves, but also follow with a pompous negative certainty, without having the necessary relevant facts. Ironic, considering our foundations are based on proper identification (metaphysics) and validation (epistemology) before passing judgment or taking action (ethics). While I agree principles should never be compromised, context and perspective need to be objectively evaluated and applied, rather than a blind intrinsic repetition. Regarding Trump, there some broad hierarchal recognitions that I believe are very consonant with our philosophy.
Our fundamental basis is metaphysics, which is the proper identification of the nature of something. More than any past politician, however brash, Trump calls it like he sees it within his known knowledge. Be it the emotional motivations of political correctness, the lies of the “fake news,” the imbedded corruption, the recognition of the good and bad on the world stage (Israel, China, North Korea, Iran), the parasitical nations that feed off our teat, etc., etc.. The transparency of his thoughts have been unmatched and not hidden behind political speak, spins, alternate agendas, backroom deals or deceit. It is what it is.
As Dr. Jerome Huyler noted, “Trump has the sense of life of an individualist. His common sense - born of decades of experience as a businessman and dealing with politicians - tells him that taxes and heavy-handed regulations destroy economies. It is true, as Rand said that common sense is the child's method of thinking. But it is born of empirical experience,” the basis of knowledge acquisition.
His “America First” mantra should be championed by us. Rand had always said America will never regain its greatness until it changes its altruist morality. America First is just that. It’s not some blind German nationalism, but an attitude that America’s interests need to be selfishly upheld. This is a necessary fundamental to our ethics. He has attempted to keep open discussions with all, based around trade and fair exchange. Rand had said, “The trader and the warrior have been fundamental antagonist throughout history.” His movement away from aggressive wars, political globalism and multi-lateral agreements keep our own self-interests as paramount. It’s the application of the trader principle.
Lastly, his counter-punch mindset and approach is completely in line with our moral rightness of retaliation. He may prod or poke, but does not pull the proverbial trigger until he’s attacked, either with words or actions.
There is a dire threat that’s facing our country today with the abuses and power of the ingrained bureaucracy utilized for political purposes. It's imperative that all Americans unite, led by the voices of reason to identify and expose this fundamental threat to freedom. It's not about the false alternative of Trump or never Trump, it's about the American system and the fundamental role, purpose and responsibilities of government, regardless ones political persuasion.
As Objectivists, we need to continually apply our principles in the real world of what is, slowly moving it to where it should be. We need to descend from the “ivory tower” to the first floor of reality. Trump may not be able to articulate the principles, but are not what’s mentioned above consistent with our most basic and fundamental beliefs as Objectivists?
I’m puzzled by the formal Objectivist movement (ARI, TOS) and their complete disdain for President Trump. From the beginning they have never missed a chance not only to distance themselves, but also follow with a pompous negative certainty, without having the necessary relevant facts. Ironic, considering our foundations are based on proper identification (metaphysics) and validation (epistemology) before passing judgment or taking action (ethics). While I agree principles should never be compromised, context and perspective need to be objectively evaluated and applied, rather than a blind intrinsic repetition. Regarding Trump, there some broad hierarchal recognitions that I believe are very consonant with our philosophy.
Our fundamental basis is metaphysics, which is the proper identification of the nature of something. More than any past politician, however brash, Trump calls it like he sees it within his known knowledge. Be it the emotional motivations of political correctness, the lies of the “fake news,” the imbedded corruption, the recognition of the good and bad on the world stage (Israel, China, North Korea, Iran), the parasitical nations that feed off our teat, etc., etc.. The transparency of his thoughts have been unmatched and not hidden behind political speak, spins, alternate agendas, backroom deals or deceit. It is what it is.
As Dr. Jerome Huyler noted, “Trump has the sense of life of an individualist. His common sense - born of decades of experience as a businessman and dealing with politicians - tells him that taxes and heavy-handed regulations destroy economies. It is true, as Rand said that common sense is the child's method of thinking. But it is born of empirical experience,” the basis of knowledge acquisition.
His “America First” mantra should be championed by us. Rand had always said America will never regain its greatness until it changes its altruist morality. America First is just that. It’s not some blind German nationalism, but an attitude that America’s interests need to be selfishly upheld. This is a necessary fundamental to our ethics. He has attempted to keep open discussions with all, based around trade and fair exchange. Rand had said, “The trader and the warrior have been fundamental antagonist throughout history.” His movement away from aggressive wars, political globalism and multi-lateral agreements keep our own self-interests as paramount. It’s the application of the trader principle.
Lastly, his counter-punch mindset and approach is completely in line with our moral rightness of retaliation. He may prod or poke, but does not pull the proverbial trigger until he’s attacked, either with words or actions.
There is a dire threat that’s facing our country today with the abuses and power of the ingrained bureaucracy utilized for political purposes. It's imperative that all Americans unite, led by the voices of reason to identify and expose this fundamental threat to freedom. It's not about the false alternative of Trump or never Trump, it's about the American system and the fundamental role, purpose and responsibilities of government, regardless ones political persuasion.
As Objectivists, we need to continually apply our principles in the real world of what is, slowly moving it to where it should be. We need to descend from the “ivory tower” to the first floor of reality. Trump may not be able to articulate the principles, but are not what’s mentioned above consistent with our most basic and fundamental beliefs as Objectivists?
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(I'd also support an Amendment to revoke voting privileges of retiring/forcibly-retired elected representatives following the certification of election results.)
Personally, I would love to see the demise of the two-party system. I would love to see alternative parties to the current Democrat v Republican paradigm - even if that means that along with the Constitution and Libertarian Parties we admit the Green and Communist parties.
I don't really believe Trump is a Republican - which probably explains much of his differences with Party Leadership (remember the whole Reince Priebus brouhaha?). I don't think he's a Libertarian or a Constitution Party member and certainly not a Green Party member or Communist. He's his own party: the Business Party. And as most elections are actually economic referendums, this is actually quite a sound strategy in a Presidential candidate.
Will there ever be an Objectivist candidate? I don't think so. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't support the policies of politicians that seek for limited government, lower taxes, free trade (tied of course to property rights), and personal liberty. Trump may not be a 100% candidate, but I'd give him at least an 85% - and that's a whole sight better than anything the Democrats have offered which are closer to 0%. I didn't vote for Trump the first time around, but I will vote for him in 2020.
There probably will never be an Objectivist President because unbending principles and pure rationality doesn't fit a political system where leaders have to be elected by the people. Maybe we can do better than Trump but he is by far the lesser of the evils and without TDS would be a lot more successful.
Neither is Trump.
Dynamite hidden in plain sight.
Is he consistent, NO. His so called tax cut was actually a tax increase for my small business. His "standing up to China" costs me thousands in tariffs, and will gain me nothing if China buckles and agrees to not steal intellectual property (since I dont sell anything to china and I dont have any intellectual property they would want)
That said, he is a LOT better than crooked Hillary, and will be a LOT better than any of the democratic candidates in 2020. Given that I wont live to see a John Galt elected, I choose to pick the best of the lot that CAN be elected when it comes down to it.
I can personally vouch for the collectivist mentality of both hardcore Trump supporters ("Trump has been blessed by God Himself") and the far left (My own brother is a democratic socialist and has called me some pretty nasty things for my support of capitalism.).
Obama was a thesis and Trump was the antithesis. There is no synthesis yet and may not be for a long time.
Every day I find myself agreeing more with libertarians than I do with conservatives for their consistency in defending liberty so I've largely avoided the Republican/Democratic dichotomy; I have a laundry list of issues with both parties. That said, I am committed to the grey and avoiding the black and white, all-or-nothing mentality. The notion that someone can do no wrong is a dangerous mentality to have regardless of who it is applied to.
We all know that but rational discussion and independent thinking is not part of political and even economic reality.
BTW, what "principles" are you referring to? Principles are banned from campus life these days, to start with. Not even mentioning social media where there is only one "principle": agree with me or you are history.
Entirely correct.
Anyone stepping into the political arena severed themselves from both.
Trump is not a leftist.
It is stated only by those who are compelled to compartmentalize. Wonder what does the poster think of Obama? Where does he fall on the scale?
Problems are never solved by applying ONE set of rules. To argue that because someone is using methods that are anathema to a conservative makes that individual a feftist means short sightedness.
The plethora of problems that Hussein left behind calls for someone who is able to absorb conflicting facts and find a path the country benefits from.
That's not a good thing. They way I look at it Conservatives are just religious and much more confused arm of the left wing.
They are certainly the biggest enemy of Objectivists and worked hard to bring Rand down because they knew her ideas meant the end for their movement.
"I am quite disgusted with the caliber of most conservatives and ENTIRELY sick of the tea party."
I'm not sure why. I mean you're still waiting to decide on Trump, so not sure how you could dislike anyone in the conservative or Tea Party movements. Let alone even many democrats...
"We do not elect pious people and we certainly don't elect terribly moral people."
What do you mean by pious people and why is that an issue?
Our real issue is that we don't elect anyone with any understanding of political theory and certainly no one with any ideas with which to oppose the left.
"Incidentally, any social structure or government is a collectivist entity..."
No, that's not what's meant by "collectivist."
Collectivist means: rights violating government policy. NO president should ever be a collectivist. If you support a collectivist president then you may as well be a socialist.
"The slippery slope is respecting and adhering to the structure of the Constitution, made more difficult by the contortion of Constitutional original intent and the ladder of violations present government stands on as its foundation."
If you support a collectivist president then you fundamentally oppose the constitution.
"As said before, I hope he has a plan, and I hope that plan benefits us, because I do not sense he does anything without a profitable reason."
I'm not sure what plan your waiting to be revealed from a statist like Trump that could possibly even remotely undo the disaster of his administration.
Many seem to be almost in a fantasy world when it comes to Trump when he is basically running a more left wing government than Obama and should be opposed certainly by anyone who identifies as an Objectivist.
I am a Conservative. I wasn't in favor of Trump (preferred Cruz or Carson), but again there really wasn't a viable alternative in the general election.I am quite disgusted with the caliber of most conservatives and ENTIRELY sick of the tea party.
We do not elect pious people and we certainly don't elect terribly moral people. I'll wait to see what he does before voicing more than my disappointment.
Incidentally, any social structure or government is a collectivist entity. So any President, and any elected official, representing a expansive body of people, in our case 230M, must be collectivist minded in his/her decision making. The slippery slope is respecting and adhering to the structure of the Constitution, made more difficult by the contortion of Constitutional original intent and the ladder of violations present government stands on as its foundation. In that way the NY Moderate, as witnessed, is as dangerous as he is duplicitous. As said before, I hope he has a plan, and I hope that plan benefits us, because I do not sense he does anything without a profitable reason.
If you don't think that someone who implements trillion dollar spending bills, regulates trade and immigration more than even Obama did, assaults the rights of tech companies more than even Obama did, etc, is not "leftist" then I'm not sure what you think that term even means.
Trump personally has no ideology, but he is still implementing collectivist and therefore leftist government policy.
As such it makes perfect sense for Objectivists to oppose Trump and his administration as much as any other collectivist and therefore leftist administration.
EDIT: also just to add, the Democrats aren't opposing anything. They are getting all their policies through, while pretending to oppose and therefore getting to have their cake and eat it too.
And we have conservatives to thank for this circus.
I agree Trump can hardly be called an Objectivist or a Conservative but I cannot say he's a leftist or remotely the ilk of the Ds ravenously opposing him at every turn.
I don't know you so if I'm out of line I apologize in advance, but I think you have an axe to grind.
Trump is an opportunistic NY moderate. Plain and simple. Not a great thing in my opinion but we could easily have done worse (and again, there was really no choice)
Trump is a complete collectivist and his administration is responsible for continuing the trillion dollar spending fiasco's started by Bush, abolished the debt ceiling (pretty much the only achievement out of the hopeless Tea Party), pushing to regulate tech companies, imposed trade tariffs and further rights violating immigration regulations. Not to mention engaged in cowardly appeasement of the worst dictators on earth as we saw with Russia and most especially NK.
No Objectivist should support this kind of appalling and leftist administration. In fact it's being so bad that it's not even clear that Hillary would've been a worse choice, so even that line of reasoning doesn't hold anymore.
As to Trump personally, well he is a liar, a philanderer, intellectually bankrupt pragmatist who thinks he's on a reality TV show.
Nothing to admire there from an Objectivist point of view either.
So much as I think there is a lot to criticize in ARI and TOS, their condemnation of Trump is certainly not one of those things at all.
It should be applauded. Trump and his administration are an unmitigated leftist disaster, pushing American politics into a very ugly Nationalist and Statist direction.
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