+ 10 if I could!

Thank you, j_IR1776wg.
If I live to see that, it will certainly be the day I go full Galt. If somehow the powers that be are determined to shackle me, to use force upon me and stop me, I will proudly exclaim those immortal words, "Give me Liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry
http://www.history.org/almanack/life/pol...
Regards,
O.A.

Thanks OA. Their main tactic seems to be to push through their ideas (Income tax, SS, Medicare, Obamacare, Common Core, etc.) when they are in power and struggle mightily to hold onto their gains when they are thrown out of power. So while Obama will not turn America into a Socialist Utopia, I fear that I may live long enough to witness a majority giving up their rights to vote, to own property, to live for their own sake never grasping the horror they will be unleashing upon themselves.

Obama would not be so bold as to suggest we are in any of these phases, yet he is directing us with an Imperial effort in the direction. He will ultimately fail as all others before him have, because human nature cannot be changed by imperial edict. In the mean time, until critical mass is reached, many will suffer.
Good discussion j_IR1776wg,
O.A.

Teddy Roosevelt wrote "...The supreme duty of the nation is the conservation of human resources through an enlightened measure of social and industrial justice..."
This is pure Socialism. The self-appointed elite look at you and me as "human resources" .
For me, the supreme duty of the nation is to protect the lives and property of each and every citizen with equal justice for all.

you are in the wrong nation, dart. . move. -- j

So Dart, just out of curiosity - exactly how far to the left does a guy have to go before he's no longer a million miles away from a Marxist.

Just wonderin'.

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/reade... (add a space after the url and it will be clickable, btw...)

Well, someone's definitely enjoyed the Kool-Aid... We're better off BECAUSE of Obama? You're confusing cause and effect with coincidence and serendipity and 'despite his best efforts...'

Crediting the Recovery to Obama is silly, since there are and were so many other variables, AND any government (or Executive) prods to an economy take 12-24 months for their effects to be seen, and the "Recovery" (one of the weakest on record) started WELL after O got in office.

imnsho, BOTH 'major political parties' are coming from the same philosophical position: the desire for Control Over Citizens, so neither the Right NOR the Left should be held blameless OR righteous in this alleged battle. They both want to control The People, just in different ways... and that's why both 'sides' are equally unacceptable to people like me.

And you've got every right to your opinion, and so do I.

Interesting comparison.

But y'know, even among the cherry picked quotes you provide he pays homage to the individual several times - something Marx and his kind never do.

Also, I think we 21st century OBJ's have a rosie view of America's "golden age" in the 1800's.

A sweat shop is better than poverty - but it is still a sweat shop. Dickens' view of industrialism had a foundation of truth.

I don't fault TR for not being AR.
She was one of the greatest minds in history. He was just a guy trying to figure it out.

I have never felt he was malicious, nor in truth anything less than an honorable man.

He was no Roark, but we've had a damn sight worse many times since.

Yeah, I was kinda "huh?' about the use of "conspiracy theorist."

Socialists have gotten where they are by controlling education. However, I agree that we lack a coherent policy to achieve a complete rollback of Socialism and that vigilance must be eternal.

Teddy Roosevelt in an article he wrote for The New York Times http://wouldyoulikeborderswiththatsocial...
"..One is that in their actual workings the old doctrines of extreme individualism and of a purely competitive industrial system have completely broken down. Another is that if we are to grapple efficiently with the evils of to-day, it will be necessary to invoke the use of governmental power to a degree hitherto unknown in this country,..
... The character of the individual is vital, and yet, in order to give it fair expression, it must be supplemented by collective action through the agencies of government. ...
"...The growth in the complexity of community life means the partial substitution of collectivism for individualism, not to destroy, but to save individualism. ..
"...The goal is a long way off, but we are striving toward it; and the goal is not socialism, but so much of socialism as will best permit the building thereon of a sanely altruistic individualism, an individualism where selfrespect is combined with a lively sense of consideration for and duty toward others, and where full recognition of the increased need of collective action goes hand in hand with a developed instead of an atrophied power of individual action..."
"...The supreme duty of the nation is the conservation of human resources through an enlightened measure of social and industrial justice. We pledge ourselves to work unceasingly in state and nation for:—
Effective legislation looking to the prevention of industrial accidents, occupational diseases, overwork, involuntary unemployment, and other injurious effects incident to
modern industry;
The fixing of minimum safety and health standards for the various occupations, and the exercise of the public authority of state and nation, including the federal control over interstate commerce and the taxing power, to maintain such standards;
The prohibition of child labor;
Minimum wage standards for working women, to provide a living scale in all industrial occupations;
The prohibition of night work for women and the establishment of an eight-hour day for women and young persons;
One day's rest in seven for all wage workers;.."

Karl Marx in his and Engels Communist Manifesto wrote
"...Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc..."

These are only a partial list of the similarities but both advocated for a strong central government to control the populace, were anti-capitalist, pro-altruistic, and anti-individual.rights. Please take the time to read both.

The Wikipedia article was obviously written by someone who believes in the Federal Reserve System. Read the book, and you'll realize the fraud that is our banking system.

I've learned a lot of stuff since I started to hang out in The Gulch. Getting hunger. Been surfing through all the conservative this and that emails I now get every day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_G...

It's a strategy that we lack. Education alone isn't going to get it done. And we need to be careful in thinking that we ever actually win. It's a constant problem to manage that will never actually go away.

I'll be on the Gulf of Mexico this weekend myself.

Try reading The Creature from Jekyll Island. I think the author's named is G. Edward Griffin, but I'm not sure anymore. It ought to be on the Gulch reading list. Freedomforall and I looked at it when he came over this weekend.

In what way was Teddy Roosevelt even remotely Marxist?

I'm much more a Gulf of Mexico kinda guy.
When I head for the beach, that is, and that's been a long time. too.
Come to think of it, I've never see the Atlantic from Georgia.

jb: Amen.
I'm beginning to think that the freest I have ever been was when I was a wee child yet wishing to be an adult to be able to command my life...
Unfortunately, I got royally screwed.
JC

You made my point. What is unfortunate is that, at the snail's pace that statism is taking over, we will be long since dead before there is liberty again.

There were once plenty of Hydes in Jekyll Island, Georgia. They started the Federal Reserve.

Comrade citizen has been taught the art of deflection by the kind of people he would worship. I was once a liberal and so my evil twin "hydes" in my inner if vastly far more improved "jekyll."