Call me a jekyhyde allosaur if you want.

I had to look that one up. A "drinking companion" under #2 could work.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tovaris...

Look at the original post, Robbie. If we are in Stage 1, then as long as we have been suffering under this regime, we are just getting started.

Yes they're just two sides of the same coin.

And thank you for your comments Kerryo. The more people we can draw into a discussion of the evils of Marx's ideas and Obama's actions, the closer we come to a critical mass needed to put the Socialists out of business in America.

Jan I did not mean to imply that the attempted destruction of the individual, as well as, the concept of the individual was a fait accompli 100+ ago years but rather the beginning of the effort to do so by the Marxists of the NEA and John Dewey.
I took the following excerpts from this site a while ago http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/chronol... but it seems to be longer on that server.

"...A quotation from “My Pedagogic Creed,” written by John Dewey in 1897, would indicate that, even at that early date, his ideas on education were radically opposed to those then current in the field of education:
• “The only true education comes through the stimulation of the child’s powers by the demands of the social situation in which he finds himself. Through these demands, he is stimulated to act as a member of a unity, to emerge from his original narrowness of action and feeling, and to conceive of himself from the standpoint of the welfare of the group to which he belongs....
• “We violate the child’s nature and render difficult the best ethical results by introducing the child too abruptly to a number of special studies, of reading, writing, geography, etc., out of relation to this social life.
• “The true center of correlation on the school subjects is not science, nor literature, nor history, nor geography, but the child’s own social activities....
"Thus, even at this early period in his teaching experience, John Dewey emphasized the predominance of the group over the individual..."

Joe

Great post. Thanks!

It made me wonder what was going on in 1848 that created the support of this manifesto? I suppose it was the large number of monarchies that were in power then. But I always have problems with the logic, which of course is replaced with emotion (hate, anger, self-pity) which justifies everything it seems. But how people can read Marx and not see that this is purely a power grab is beyond me. I see people today blindly supporting any Obama decision as if their lives depend on it. Socialists need and depend on sheep and how they can turn normally intelligent people into a galloping herd is beyond comprehension. I understand why the moochers follow, their lives truly do depend on it, but I'm talking about people that we all know who are highly "educated" otherwise intelligent people. They do all have one thing in common, though. They like to be right. They strive for power yet deny that they do.

Good discussion jlc; It makes me think of the theme in Anthem and that perhaps we should hide a few hundred thousand copies in plain sight!

I have to agree that the Republicans won't roll back the lawlessness mostly because they are afraid of the backlash to them personally. And don't forget, it reduces the options for them in the future.

I wasn't too worried about where he was going to land when he leaves office. I always figured he'd do something for himself (like play golf)since that's what he's been doing since he's been in office. But you make a good point. Now I have something else to worry about...

Do you really think this started 100+ years ago, Joe? When I was in school, it was all about individual accomplishment; working in groups (other than to study) was called 'cheating'.

I agree with you, but damn - groupthink is pervasive...and really nice (young) people do not seem to even notice that this is how they assume 'one behaves'. (And one of these guys won an award for an AS themed essay once...Since he graduated from college, it has all been about 'working with the group'.)

Jan

I don't care what others think is reasonable. They also think that, as the wolves discussing dinner plans, that consuming me is also reasonable. I am usually one of the friendlier people in the Gulch and am more tolerant of trolls than I should be, but you clearly don't belong here.

It's been fun verbally jousting with both you and your evil twin.

What is unfortunate is that we are closer to the beginning than the end.

Jan the absolute essence of our Constitution with its Bill of Rights and the DOI is whether the Individual as Individual should be allowed to exist in a society. Plato, Marx, and Obama not only want to deny that existence, they go further in that they want eliminate even the concept of individuality from the minds of all humans on Earth forever. My great hope is that in the face of a 100+ years of groupthink in our schools, you, I, Rand, and most of the 18,000 in the Gulch and millions more in America have not given up our individuality and that our determination will destroy Plato, Marx, and Obama forever.

Joe

I do not think we are in any of the Marxist phases named above, though we are progressing in that direction. I think that 'erosion' is probably a more accurate description than 'destruction' for what is currently occurring in the US.

Discussions on AS have made me aware of the difference between 'top down' and 'bottom up' changes. We have inherited a system that represented the wishes of a society that lived 200 years ago, and there is sufficient inertia to that philosophy that it has not been totally destroyed. But if you ask young people today what they believe in, they will unhesitatingly endorse global warming, conservation, welfare, globalization and working in groups rather than as individuals. So we are growing our own 'bottom up' revolution to effect the destruction mentioned in Phase 1.

Let me segue a bit on the 'working in groups' theme because I think that this is root, and overlooked. Have y'all noticed that in grammar school, kids work on projects in groups, and there is a single output (paper, project) for which the entire group receives a grade (irrespective of their degree of contribution to the project)? This continues up through college, now. I think this is a crucial step in the erosion of the individual and that it lays the groundwork for the other social themes I mentioned (global warming, conservation, etc) because it emphasizes that the group is more important than the individual.

Jan

Me too. It often seems that he wants to be chief of the global tribe.

Putz to which facts do you refer?