Go up to Burns Oregon (about a half days drive from here, BTW, if you're ever in the area!!) and ASK the locals how they feel about these out of staters coming up and sticking their nose in what was a private issue.

Sure, it gave them a voice and platform... but it also ruined their lives, something they saw coming. But don't take it from me... go up there yourself and ask. Good people, they'll talk to you. See how THEY feel about this insanity.

hey -- Americans' lives don''t matter! -- j
.

ah! . one of my favorite oxymorons -- political science!
the best one, though, is on cast iron things in the street --
sanitary sewer. -- j
.

ummmmmmm ... when I gave my credit union my cash
in exchange for a pittance in interest, I did it willingly
and didn't consider their meager interest rate evidence
of theft, just capitalistic stinginess. . where is the theft? -- j
.

great analysis, except for one thing::: we now have a person
who has given it all for the cause, whose name will be
part of a "remember the cause" call ringing in our ears.
this needs to become a part of a popular uprising
against an oppressive government, does it not? -- j

"Remember LaVoy Finicum"
.

This breaks my heart. There has to be a way for people to fight back against bullies - especially when the bully is 'the gov'.

The only positive outcome I can now imagine is if someone like Pacific Legal Foundation takes the case and sues the government.

Jan

All very sad! Heartbreaking to the real Americans!

I think the locals are terrified to get involved, they have seen a large thriving ranch turn to ruins due to fighting the system. The Hammond's have given up. And the Fed's are doing all they can to keep the locals out of it, because if they get in on it, the situation begins to gain legitimacy. At that point they can no longer say its just some trouble makers from other states, then the real conflict may come out. And God forbid that happens. Keep it all quiet and keep the mess to a dull roar, people will forget.

I so agree with you. This is blatant murder of an American citizen, revolt or revolution, either way the whole damn thing stinks! And they are hiding it from the media as much as possible. I am sure this man's family are crushed and I hope they don't back down. Not to mention the Hammond s served their time is there an amendment against being retried for the same crime? This whole situation is all bad, way too much govt control. When and where does it stop.

So very sad. And what is happening to those detained. I wonder if any of us will ever see them again? Do we really still have any rights at all?

I, too, will be interested to see what the warrants state, because the charges were about interfering with a Federal officer in the course of his duties. That means they have to cite the duty being performed (which immediately becomes a jurisdictional challenge) and how the alleged interference took place. The burden of prosecution lies with the Federal Government.

Wait for the facts to come out. Remember "hands up don`t shoot" ?

Yeah, I know. But, the media has a very close relationship with government. Media sets the agenda and government acts on it - in general. (The one thing I took with me from Poli Sci 101 in college - haha)

"Ranchers' lives don't matter."

Because the banking cartel wants the government to punish people (at taxpayers expense) who try to steal the money the banksters stole from productive people and to make it appear the government is doing something to support law and order and to provide safety to the citizens? (In reality it is doing nothing of the kind, and exceeding the government's constitutional powers.)

If this goes the way of Waco and Ruby Ridge, the militia members will all be found innocent of any wrongdoing. The Feds will walk and nobody will be held accountable for the death.

We should be glad Janet Reno wasn't still around...the body count would have been MUCH higher.

And some people laugh when you tell them that Obama wants to the federal government to take over all law enforcement. Me, I'm going to buy another gun.

This is a perfect illustration of an overbloated government demonstrating its power for the sake of demonstrating its power. The Feds have nothing to gain by their restrictions on the ranchers except for some phony environmental wacko made-up reasons. But, like other cases in the past it lead to someone's death. Reminds me of what we learned in basic freedom lessons: Q: "Why must we obey a stupid law?" A: "Because if you continue to do so, eventually the government can kill you." The more power the state is allowed to have, the more power it will exert. Sometimes, merely to demonstrate its power over its citizens.

Note that only 15% of the federal prisoners committed crimes that directly violated someone's rights. Also note that all of those crimes also presumably violated state laws unless they occurred on federal land or Indian reservations. So why do we have a federal prison system at all?

OK, federal prison system only shrinks to 1/5 its size and the state systems to 1/20th their size.

Currently federal prisons are occupied for these offenses:
Drugs 47%
Weapons 17%
Immigration 9%
Extortion, Fraud, Bribery 7%
Robbery 4%
Burglary, Larceny, Property 4%

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/...

There were arrest warrants issued by the federal court and signed by a federal magistrate judge. Those warrants would have to be properly supported by factual statements and affidavits demonstrating probable cause for the arrests. Since there would be no reason to seal those warrants we should soon have access to them and then be able to see what facts were alleged to support the probable cause findings. My guess is the interference has to do with the seizure of the federal buildings involved but that is only a guess. The warrants and the supporting materials will explain more.

A point was made that they were allowed to leave without interference or fear of force but yet the latter is exactly what they did.
This should be a national "Front Page" issue.

Will anyone bring this up in the debates?
I am going to try.

Overwhelming majority of WOD (War on Drugs) prisoners (approximately 90%) are in state prisons, not federal. And even that figure is understated because many state prisoners plead guilty to non-WOD crimes because they were arrested while in possession and plead out to avoid punitive drug sentencing laws.

Yet another American Citizan murdered by the Feds. I also did not think this whole incident was going to end well. I also though we would have another Waco on our hands. I don't think its over yet.

Been following the situation north of us... What, to me, is interesting... is the Hammonds (who turned themselves in, BTW) didn't want either the federales OR the Bundy's there, nor did the neighbors... They (the Hammonds) fought the good fight in court, and (perhaps wrongly) lost, so (as good, upstanding citizens) decided to turn themselves in. The Brethren Bundy out of SOUTHERN NEVADA (nowhere near Oregon), who have problems with paying a land owner for running their cattle on someone elses land (regardless if that land owner is the dotgov, I still think that is called... um... mooching?), used the Hammonds situation (against the Hammond's wishes, BTW) as a way to keep their 15 minutes of adrenaline-fueled, overthrow-the government baiting nonsense going. (I still think they read too many survivalist novellas, and somehow believed that the end of the world scenario espoused in some was real...)

What the Bundy Bunch were apparently shooting for (no pun intended) was, after failing to do so at their home turf in Nevada, they wanted to provoke an armed confrontation with the government (a'la Waco, Texas) in Oregon. They want to be the new-day Koresh's so they will be looked on as "heroes". Meanwhile, the people in Harney County, Oregon, wanted nothing to do with these assorted rabble rousers, and the US government people they attracted, and wanted them all gone. The Bundys - wanted none of THAT - they needed a firefight.

The Bundy clan got their wish - they poked the hornet next, and kept poking at it, until they got the firefight they wanted so desperately (and felt were "cheated out of") at home. Notice how they're calling the dead guy (who committed "suicide by cop") a martyr for the cause? Bah.

I just wish these out of stater southern Nevadans and their Ilk would pack up, go home, and leave the locals in peace to deal with what they have to deal with. Unfortunately - the locals (who DO value their liberty and privacy) will have the dotgov down their throats for a long time to come. Nice Job, guys.