Why is the Constitution important to objectivists?

Posted by coaldigger 6 years, 6 months ago to Ask the Gulch
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"I can say—not as a patriotic bromide, but with full knowledge of the necessary metaphysical, epistemological, ethical, political and esthetic roots—that the United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world." Ayn Rand

With all the concern about protecting this document it seems to me to be the basis of law and the definition of the organization to which we elect to follow the laws thereof. those of us that were born in the US should not accept that we have to be ruled by its government without reason. We should examine it's principles and make a determination whether to leave or stay. the principles, not just the implementation should be the guiding factor. If implementation is a problem then we must fight for the principles.


I don't like being thrown with Conservatives because they are statist of a different stripe, they have too many mystical beliefs and their dedication to preservation of individual rights is suspect. The problem with not doing so is to allow Progressives to discard the Constitution and creating a dictatorship of whatever feels good at the moment. While watching the questioning of Kavanaugh, before it became a circus, I was relieved that someone of his intellect and dedication to founding principles would be joining others of a like mind on the court. For about one evening I felt better about the future of America. After being routed in terms of reason, the other side resorted to some of the most reprehensible behavior possible and killed my buzz. It is now even more apparent how important it is to defeat those that would abandon the principles that have provided an organized society that has done more to elevate mankind than any previous system. I think it makes it worthwhile to hold my nose and support Conservatives and perhaps the radical left will lose their grip on the opposition party and we can become a functioning representative democracy again.


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  • Posted by ewv 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Mysticism is not "smirked". It is rejected as irrational, not help in understanding "helping of Objectivism" or anything else.

    Conservatives are inconsistent and incapable of intellectually defending a free country.
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  • Posted by ewv 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This confuses morality with the legal system. Of course a valid moral code is necessary by which to live: life requires making choices in accordance with proper standards. In addition, without reason and a morality of individualism no proper government established to protect the rights of the individual can last. Religious duty is not the basis of morality, nor is it the basis of a legal system of any kind other than theocracy. It does not provide a basis for society without 'blanket laws'. Objective, uniformly applicable laws are a requirement for the defense of individual rights.
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  • Posted by Solver 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    More and more, laws are being made across the globe for social reconstruction. Utopia is only X executions away.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Laws are made, in abundance these days, for those who cannot, or refuse to police themselves; everyone else has to suffer because of that personal defect in others. Religions, faiths, belief systems all serve a purpose in creating a structure for individual conduct without the need for blanket laws. As morality continues to become more relative in society this nation, a Constitutional one once focused on individual liberty and government non-intervention in personal lives, more laws are made targeting a myriad of conduct, this decimates the purpose of the Constitution.

    I can see where Herd was headed with this statement in that the absence of ANY personal moral code leads to more government influence in every persons lives to stop the lack of self-restraint in a small portion. To be free, to enjoy liberty, each person must have a code/belief system that they must live by.

    "“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    John Adams quotes (American 2nd US President (1797-1801),
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  • Posted by $ prof611 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Am I missing something here? It sounds like you are responding to someone else here, but I can't find a post prior to yours where "removing religion" is mentioned.

    Plus, I thoroughly disagree with your first statement.
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  • Posted by starznbarz 6 years, 6 months ago
    The waters were muddied for decades, then, after Obama, the democrat party decided to believe their own BS and stop hiding their true agenda - they are communists calling openly for communism. They have hidden behind the "progressive" label because they learned that they could promise the moon, lie about their true agenda and gain power. They showed themselves in the Obama years and were routed in historic numbers from 2010 to 2016..they did not take it well when their new champion screwed the pooch and left them powerless. The democrat party, after they have shown their true self the last year or so, should be put out of power across the Nation, then the republican "establishment" career weasels should be removed from power - or jailed with the dems. I vote for the Constitutional candidates - in the event none is running, I do not vote that office. Constitutional, not conservative is the salvation of the Republic.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I differentiate significantly between conservatives and Republicans. (It's why I no longer call myself a Republican, but a Constitutionalist.) There are some which are both and I look at their participation in the Freedom Caucus as a basic indicator.

    I, too, look at the rising Federal debt as an act of hypocrisy by Republican and especially those who claim to be conservatives.

    And to support a point made elsewhere that one of the huge departures from the Constitution was the Ratification of the Seventeenth Amendment. The other was the Twelfth Amendment which effectively introduced party ballots and all but eliminated the possibility of third parties being seriously considered.
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  • Posted by 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Conservative citizens and conservative politicians are not the same. Either our elected officials are just playing a game to get elected or once they get their hands on the wheel they just have to have more power. Damn few are statist whether they admit it or not. You can't spend $20 Trillion more than you collect in revenue unless you are building a state bigger than we can afford.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 6 months ago
    "The problem with not doing so is to allow Progressives to discard the Constitution and creating a dictatorship of whatever feels good at the moment."

    While I think depicting Conservatives as statists is a fallacy, you have identified the true enemy: the Progressive. I think that too many try to make everyone they disagree with on the tiniest level the enemy while ignoring that Objectivists and conservatives have much in common.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agreed. I find that the vast majority of Conservatives are in favor of limited, Constitutional government - the opposite of statism. And those who claim that they are in favor of a big government in reality aren't really conservative in their mindset.
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  • Posted by chad 6 years, 6 months ago
    While the constitution embodies the ideal of republicanism, the protection of rights and individuals, a democracy embraces the collectivist idea of tyranny by the majority and demanding that individuals be sacrificed to the desire of collectivists to be represented (opportunity to steal) in their desires to have others support them. In other words their 'representatives' support them in their collectivist goals. Read what the philosopher Lysander Spooner said about the constitution.
    While Kavanaugh appears 'conservative' in some respects he has upheld the Patriot Act and the right to abrogate the protections of the constitution through the use of FISA (secret courts) in the cause of protecting the citizens from outside danger.
    There isn't much left of the original constitution and what the writers of the contract intended. Allowing precedent rulings to interpret the law allows for the contract to be re-interpreted and then refer to that interpretation as the basis for understanding the contract rather than relying on understanding the contract. Kavanaugh sides with collectivism although he might sound 'conservative' and hoping that he might accidentally steer the collectivists back toward the light of liberty is folly.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 6 years, 6 months ago
    the Constitution was written to protect individuals from govt...hence why they want to tear it down...stupid conservatives only want to preserve it...not strengthen it...
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  • Posted by nhtemplar 6 years, 6 months ago
    For Objectivists the Constitution is significant precisely because it is a “contract”. And contracts are between equals, buyers and sellers. The great achievement of the enlightenment was to see men and women not as a mass, or members of a class but as individuals. Marxiists see men and women as only having value by their identity as part of a collective. The US Constitution sees the ultimate political entity as the individual with rights and responsibilities freely entered into with fellow citizens. The totalitarian tide rising today requires us to defend our Objectivist principles in thought, word and deed. Let the battle be joined.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 6 months ago
    Removing religion in the USA would be like removing a person's skeleton and expecting it to function.Unless the radical left gains control,.The atheism of the left doesn't work because it is coupled with substituting the state for religion.What do they have in common?1. dogma not to be questioned 2. Different standards of law application for leaders as opposed to everyone else 3. Leaders treated with reverence. 4. Leadership decisions are never wrong 5. All decisions are for the benefit of the people in words only. 6. The "Job effect" No matter how much you suffer, you must always remain loyal. So, as you can see, the state becomes the people's religion.
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  • Posted by EgoPriest 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And I just remembered a third principle that, as a chronically time-wasting neurotic perfectionist due to my militantly-religious paternal upbringing (preacher dad fought in Vietnam) has helped me tremendously of late: "Progress is Perfection."

    This was the slogan of Silk Soymilk they ran during the World Cup. The "take ownership" quote comes from the Galt Speech, and I'm not sure if the "activation" quote is from Napoleon or Platoon's "You smoke this stuff to escape reality? I am reality!" line perhaps.

    And just now a fourth principle I thought of recently (while memorizing/reciting/inducing the Galt Speech, which just plants seeds in my mind): "We/I have no time for mysticism, and no room for doubt."

    And, "there's an enormous difference between thinking about principles, and thinking in principle."

    That's quite a list, but I'm a lifelong poet/songwriter (bassist from HS), the would-be Patrick Henry of my revolution of one ("the one in the many").

    Also, in Ryan Holliday style (the neo-stoic author of "The Obstacle is the Way" and "Ego is the Enemy,") my principle is that "The Training is the Treatment".

    I should (and probably will) write a book with some such title. People will likely call me a stoic too, and maybe I am.
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  • Posted by EgoPriest 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I couldn't agree more, hence my arduous Galt Brigade idea which is "ideal" for young people (future patriots in training).

    But that's why I'm a cultural revolutionary, an intellectual activist functioning from the "inside-out" as all first-revolutionaries must. Change has always come from "the bottom."

    In addition to Galt we can also "take a loincloth" from Gandhi in terms of tactics (he also took to the rails, as it were): going to the people has worked every time (and he didn't really martyr himself since his fasting was part of his revolutionary regimen, and was also assassinated in consequence of the nationalistic content he extolled).

    I consistently practice and advise two things:

    1) Take ownership: I begin every day by looking myself in the mirror and saying to myself: "Your life belongs to you" ten times slow. I often say this to others as well.

    2) Activate your rights: Intermittently I also remind myself that "I am the revolution" which I say only to those who deserve the compliment.

    Mr. Ashinoff, You are the revolution. And I haven't forgotten, I'll read your contributions to our "golden" cause when I find the time or opportunity (e.g., next time I visit Phoenix). B^)
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  • Posted by EgoPriest 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That linguistic example's rather abstract unless you understand the morphological principle (broader than linguistics) of onset, nucleus and coda.

    Per my example, the individual is the political onset to the tertiary formation of local authority (the nucleus) from the (federal) coda that seals the deal in principle for proper (socio-political) pronunciation (and because that particular example works differently for the British in their "environment").

    The other important principle of social action (which I got from Oceanography) is constructive, as distinguished from destructive interference. This principle explains why in, say, weather forecasting the aggregate of "micro-aggressions" can't predict if after an off-shore earthquake there will be a tidal wave or a large depression (how actions manifest in aggregate depends on how a plethora of entities, e.g., currents, line up).

    But in terms of semantics (one's life) the nucleus is primary, so it only goes so far as an analogy. And philosophy is the prime-mover in terms of how constructive/destructive forces align socially.
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  • Posted by EgoPriest 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I like your argument even if I still harbor some principled reservations (e.g., moral knowledge vs. "technology"), and while having neither ancestral identity-issues in play (I don't know who mine were), nor any other "dog" in play than the universal principle which is the "puppy" to every child ever born or ever to come into being.

    The Atlas Spoke Transparency (AST) knows no borders but such as work to defend individuals' property per region by objective law holding the one code of individual rights as absolute.

    So, as in linguistics (my field), "regional" forms and levels of gov't would be like a "back-formation" (e.g. "mettle": /med'l/ ) from the universal (and global), which derives its legitimate authority directly from the primary entities (i.e., all human individuals) back down through increasingly more localized administrations (like a virtuous spiral arriving back to each autonomous individual wherever they live or travel).

    /(OxO)\ : (best "puppy" I could do).
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This fight won't be won with guns from the outside in. The fedgov needs to be seeded with enough Consitutionalists to make an effective change. Be those people Conservatives, Libertarians or Objectivists they would would have to be people of principle who are willing to be subject to extreme criminal prosecution for transgressions. This is why education has become a government institution and why they have dumbed down children to the point they don't know the value of what they have been bequeathed. The only people who are a cancer to this process would be D's, leftists, and establishment RINOs. Speaking of this, we need no less than 5 political parties to chose from. But to get there you'd need the two parties to relinquish its choke hold on the system (which brings us again to seeding the government).

    Screw the globe. We fix home first and then worry about them based on our own interests.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am with you in the first paragraph.

    On BK's position on the 4th, I think only a few would have been wise to that, the left, infected by the post modern virus, see their post modern power going down the drain.
    I hope this sickening charade was worth the trouble in the saving of the republic.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Because fifty tyrannies are better than one?"
    No, because the 50 State governments are closer to the people they represent and are more accountable to their local populations. State governments can better reflect their laws to suit their populations without concern what other states are doing. The fedgov was established for one specific purpose and had broken out of its structure to be a monster.

    Constitutionally, a state governor should be more relevant and important than the US President.

    Further, Senators should be appointed by State Governors as representatives of their state. Senators should be fire-able at a moments notices by the state governor if he/she feels they are acting more in their own interest or federal interest than that of their state.

    Point of interest (supports how unimportant once presidents were): Lincoln had to write to ask for permission to speak at Gettyburg, he was never invited.

    Lastly, slavery. As mentioned previously technology would have rendered the institution prohibitively expensive in time.

    For the record, I was born and raised in NY and my family arrived on these shores well after the "Civil War". I have no dog in this argument. :)
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  • Posted by EgoPriest 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Personally, I would prefer to see the American Revolution go global (post Atlas Shrugged anyway). But that's why I'm the revolutionary and you aren't.

    (B^\/)-[GSS-105]--<
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  • Posted by EgoPriest 6 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because fifty tyrannies are better than one? I'm for the system devised to defeat slavery and protect the rights of all individuals (from sea to shining sea) -- including "a very small portion of the population..." One person born into bondage is one too many.

    But it's been months since I listened to that particular podcast, so Charles Tew's arguments are not fresh in my mind. I also remember agreeing that our Founder's experiment in liberty would have crashed and burned had it not been for Lincoln's "pragmatism." More statist states tend to gang up on freer ones -- as witness today's global landslide.
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