Is the Gulch possible in 2023?

Posted by $ servo75 2 years ago to The Gulch: General
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I don't mean politically or where would the land come from, etc. I'm talking simply about feasibility and resources, human and otherwise. I'm referring to his maxim about doing the minimum you can (in the outside world) to sustain yourself, not "work for the looters", etc. Certainly in 1957 I would say impossible. Personally I disagree slightly with this part of Galt's (Rand's? I tend to use them interchangeably) philosophy. If I do better for myself, I'm working for myself and enjoying the benefits. As long as I'm not working free out of pure altruism for someone else, I don't see what the harm is IMHO. But back to the point...

We are not supposed to do anything that "supports the looters" which I take to mean just about any commerce in the outside world. If that's the case then to pull off an Atlantis in real life, it would have to be 100% self-sustaining. Just thinking of the movie since that's more modern, don't phones still have to come from the outside? Some building materials? Is there a hospital in the Gulch? Are there farms sufficient to make food production completely self-sustaining? Also the use of gold. I understand Galt said that Dagny was "broke" because she didn't carry around gold with her. Does that mean any gold from outside the gulch is no good? How would one notice the difference? Does that mean every coin was mined from within the gulch? There's still an exchange rate where one could buy gold on the outside and bring it in (personally I'd be for expanding the currency to silver and copper too for small purchases, but I digress...)

So to maintain the Gulch would require being 100% self-sustaining requiring no good, product, service, or raw material from the outside world. In 2023, unlike 1957, I think this IS theoretically possible since I believe there are enough producers from all industries necessary to survive. But I don't know if I can say the same for raw materials. There would have to be someone who has the skill and physical resources to build technology, lay telephone lines, put up cell towers, manufacture the phones and tablets and computers, enough farms to provide fruit, meat, and dairy for everyone. Hospital and medical/specialist services. Tall order. I think this is all in THEORY possible, whereas we could find enough producers to cover every field. A tech company like Samsung may have Galtian employees (Quentin Daniels types) but would they be able to produce the same in the Gulch? Would they have the facilities? The materials? Unless I'm getting Galt's philosophy wrong, his ideals in the Gulch would be next to impossible because at some point something must be needed from outside.

Thoughts?


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  • Posted by term2 1 year, 12 months ago in reply to this comment.
    CBDC is a really bad thing. The bud light thing is a bit stupid, but customers should and can make buying decisions. What if 50 million people just decided not to pay taxes. Even 86,000 IRS agents would be powerless.
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  • Posted by term2 1 year, 12 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is right. But, why the 86,000 new armed IRS agents they conveniently put after us.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    You've proven you are addicted to your 'conveniences', measure everything in the currency of the enemy, and have no idea how to value freedom. Just as the Deep State wants it.
    Stay the course and your precious USD will buy only what your masters say you can have.
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  • Posted by jack1776 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I don’t know the conversations you been engaged in but I’ve only witnessed civil discord on nuance topics.
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  • Posted by jack1776 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Not a fan ether but with reduced or no regulations, people need a way to litigate other dumb asses. People will always disagree, look at this conversation, LOL
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Income tax is slavery. Someone else decides how much of your work effort you are allowed to keep.
    Even the MAFIA wouldn't take > 50%
    But if you are self-employed you can pay 39% and 15% for about 54% (yeah, I consider both sets of taxes). Or you pay massive income tax, in a GRADUATED tax, which our constitution said should not be done. (Oh, but it's not... It's a DISCOUNT if you make LESS than some levels. Umm... Still the same thing).
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Read the book:
    Lies My Doctor Told Me. By Dr. Ken Berry.

    The doctors I Follow NOW all have changed so much, that their goals are to DEPRESCRIBE the medicines they were pushing.

    When you realize it's not just Covid, the flu, the childhood vaccines. But Statins? Utter BS. T2D is a lifestyle disease mismanaged by doctors.
    I watched them turn my neighbor INTO a T2D in TN. Don't get me started about cancer therapy, where they count it as a SUCCESS if the drug kills you before the cancer does.

    And I also said "When the lights go out!"
    With access to tech, a doctor in a pinch is great.

    Emergency Medical is Amazing.
    Prevention? We're morons. More than HALF the drug trials CANNOT be reproduced. Besides being invalidated statistically when they can BURY 10 studies that showed danger, and only publish the 1 study that is so doctored up it's worthless.

    I knew a Cancer doc. $50,000/treatment. He would NEVER take it, and he would NEVER give it to a family member. But he hides behind "It's standard of care... And cancer is a death sentence, so I do the best I can for my patients"

    Yeah... Don't need them doctors!
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  • Posted by $ 2 years ago
    Looking at the comments... I almost wish I had never asked this question, it's stirring up much more heated discussion than I intended. To those saying, "Yes but we'd have to live at a lower standard of living" it really depends on how much lower. If I earn $100,000 and the government takes 35% of it leaving me with $65K, am I better off making only $50K and being taxed only 6% and netting $47K? I'm now $18K poorer. The fact that I won't be paying taxes on that is small comfort. But that's just my view. I love my nose as much as the rest of my face. We all have our differing opinions within the group, as is a good thing. I'm sure there are religious people among us too. But TBH, and this applies not just to this discussion, it does sadden me a bit to see a level of black-pilling and pessimism that is more than I had expected, even from people whom I generally agree with. Oh well, such is life.
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  • Posted by $ 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    But of course the taxation issue is becoming less and less because of the printing of money and devaluation of the dollar. Refusing to "work for the looters" and pay taxes matters much less to them than it used to be, since they can print money whenever they feel like it. As bad as overtaxing is, borrowing is worse, and printing exponentially so.
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  • Posted by $ 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Lawyers I can understand but no doctors? I think much of the "lack of effectiveness" of modern doctors is BECAUSE of government control, e.g. Obamacare, insurance regulations, the DEA putting every prescription under a microscope, things like that.
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  • Posted by $ 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    The phone thing was just an example. The broader question, is could such a community be completely self-sustaining? It wasn't meant to be taken literally.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    That is a Q #4008 drop with a 3 year delta on Apr 29.

    https://qalerts.app/?q=

    This is one drop that is discussed maybe more than any other.
    #521
    Jan 13, 2018 10:18:18 PM EST
    Q !UW.yye1fxo ID: 000000 No. 9
    We are FIGHTING for LIFE.
    We are FIGHTING for GOOD.
    We are at WAR [@].
    NOT EVERYTHING WILL BE CLEAN.
    [SCARE] NECESSARY EVENT.
    Do you TRUST the US Military?
    Do you TRUST the Chain Of Command?
    Have FAITH - WE ARE IN CONTROL.
    PATRIOTS.
    PATRIOTS DAY.
    HAVE FAITH.
    YOU WERE CHOSEN FOR A REASON.
    YOU ARE BEING PROVIDED THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF INTEL TO EVER BE DROPPED PUBLICLY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
    USE IT - PROTECT AND COMFORT THOSE AROUND YOU.
    WHERE WE GO ONE, WE GO ALL.
    Q
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  • Posted by katrinam41 2 years ago
    For our group, moving into a small town, very small town, and gradually growing it with more Gulchers may be a simple answer. As more and more of us reach the exit point, our community will grow without causing alarm bells to go off. Keep under the radar, keep as much commerce in the town as possible, cut back on any outside anything as we can. This group has a huge talent/skill pool. We also understand what's happening out there in the big, wide world. In this day and age, isolation like the Davidians is an invitation to suicide by gov. We can't do the kind of Gulch we all want--yet--but if the country continues to slide, it won't be long before that Gulch will be a matter of survival. Start now. Let's find a place, in this country, and those who can, begin the move. There should be plenty of room to expand, climate to grow crops and raise protein, in a state that is not yet totally woke. That last qualification is imperative, or we'll be cut down before we start.
    So, where? I like places like Tennessee, Texas, a breadbasket state maybe. Anywhere there is no state income tax would be good. Any state with no Demoncrat state majority. Any state which believes in the right to defend one's right to exist. But we have to start soon, no matter which idea takes hold. Having even a whisper of a haven will be needed sooner than we want to believe.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Budget in 1963 gives a better idea on how the looters have gotten bolder. It was just $93 billion dollars although the population then was was just 189 million.
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  • Posted by JakeOrilley 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Very well stated... that almost sounds the way the DS is trying to take over the country....
    The outspoken radicals are a very small minority which is the only thing that still has me hopeful.
    An EXCELLENT definition of insurgency!
    Thanks for the thoughts....
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  • Posted by JakeOrilley 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    With those credentials you would not need to bring gold...and quite corect - pioneering communities start small....
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  • Posted by JakeOrilley 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Captain I agree with your post. With our collective ingenuity we would be able to support our population without "mandates". If someone has something to offer that would help the population, they will survive. A freeloader would not. Would we need the lightbulbs? There are many of us that know how to manufacture this..... but is it a requirement? Again going back to your statement - "a community, living disconnected, on their own, with the fruits of their own labor". The living disconnected on our own is what would be important....
    But well thought out and presented.
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I KNOW they will. But Chernobyl is already liveable as I understand it.

    I believe the word would be COMPLETELY destroyed. I welcome it. Because that's what we deserve for letting it get this far out of control.
    This is a GLOBAL DARWIN AWARD!
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