Is the Gulch possible in 2023?

Posted by $ servo75 2 years ago to The Gulch: General
85 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

I don't mean politically or where would the land come from, etc. I'm talking simply about feasibility and resources, human and otherwise. I'm referring to his maxim about doing the minimum you can (in the outside world) to sustain yourself, not "work for the looters", etc. Certainly in 1957 I would say impossible. Personally I disagree slightly with this part of Galt's (Rand's? I tend to use them interchangeably) philosophy. If I do better for myself, I'm working for myself and enjoying the benefits. As long as I'm not working free out of pure altruism for someone else, I don't see what the harm is IMHO. But back to the point...

We are not supposed to do anything that "supports the looters" which I take to mean just about any commerce in the outside world. If that's the case then to pull off an Atlantis in real life, it would have to be 100% self-sustaining. Just thinking of the movie since that's more modern, don't phones still have to come from the outside? Some building materials? Is there a hospital in the Gulch? Are there farms sufficient to make food production completely self-sustaining? Also the use of gold. I understand Galt said that Dagny was "broke" because she didn't carry around gold with her. Does that mean any gold from outside the gulch is no good? How would one notice the difference? Does that mean every coin was mined from within the gulch? There's still an exchange rate where one could buy gold on the outside and bring it in (personally I'd be for expanding the currency to silver and copper too for small purchases, but I digress...)

So to maintain the Gulch would require being 100% self-sustaining requiring no good, product, service, or raw material from the outside world. In 2023, unlike 1957, I think this IS theoretically possible since I believe there are enough producers from all industries necessary to survive. But I don't know if I can say the same for raw materials. There would have to be someone who has the skill and physical resources to build technology, lay telephone lines, put up cell towers, manufacture the phones and tablets and computers, enough farms to provide fruit, meat, and dairy for everyone. Hospital and medical/specialist services. Tall order. I think this is all in THEORY possible, whereas we could find enough producers to cover every field. A tech company like Samsung may have Galtian employees (Quentin Daniels types) but would they be able to produce the same in the Gulch? Would they have the facilities? The materials? Unless I'm getting Galt's philosophy wrong, his ideals in the Gulch would be next to impossible because at some point something must be needed from outside.

Thoughts?


All Comments


Previous comments...   You are currently on page 4.
  • Posted by Dobrien 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    +1👍🏻 Atlas Shrugged lacked a President Donald J Trump who has committed to never ever give up fighting the Evil . AS also lacked a Qreat Awakening operation that is evident today.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Aeronca 2 years ago
    One issue here is how much quality of life does one have to give up to establish a separate self-sufficient Gulch? Obviously there are benefits to a large society of specialization that we all enjoy. But when the whole enterprise becomes a burden of working for the looters, it's time to go solo and give up the conveniences to be free. So a lot of electronic technology and advanced health care are immediately out, but there is Self-Reliance, a long forgotten art, and contact sport. The self-reliant built this world and we have grown soft and forgotten how they did it.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by starguy 2 years ago
    I always thought that Dagny had the right idea: stay and fight for what you want, rather than running away and hiding.
    What if John Galt had quit 20th Century Motors, and then started his own company (with Midas Mulligan's backing), manufacturing and selling his motor/power converter? And then, hiring Quentin Daniels, and people like him. Lots of such people.
    Make the world as you want it to be, rather than turning it over to people like Brandon, uh I mean Mr. Thompson, and watching them make a royal mess of things.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by jack1776 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    “That reluctance must be overcome and it won't happen until a core group
    has proven the concept as a success.” - or they have nothing else left to loose. I’ve written about the trigger point and we all have one, its different for all of us at what point we become “all in”. For me, its not owning my property outright, I owe the bank and there for I need to make income to keep my property. Fighting a war and holding a job are incompatible. I think they know this and are orchestrating the whole thing and manipulating public opinion and keep us where we are at.

    Going Galt virtually makes sense to me as we could organize and put some hurt to them (who are they, kind of like an inverse John Galt). We need a secure, safe and encrypted method to organzine. I’ve been looking at an old school technology called Internet Relay Chat or IRC. I’d want to make sure its untraceable, the content could be made unreadable.

    Organizing for commerce, boycotting, news and events. So this is the technology problem, solved. Allowing access and to whom is a major problem and is why I never developed anything. Someone somewhere will allow someone that shouldn’t be into the network. Once that happens, its destroyed. The FBI has people embedded in a lot of these type of organizations, how do we keep that from happening? I’m pretty sure I invited one to my house, nothing added up with him. America has been under attack, we just didn't know it until recently.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by freedomforall 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree that creating a real Gulch would be difficult.
    I recognize that people are comfortable in their own areas and are very
    reluctant to leave behind relatives, familiarity, and conveniences.
    That reluctance must be overcome and it won't happen until a core group
    has proven the concept as a success.
    That would only be the beginning of the challenge.
    Galt had the invisibility screen to protect his Gulch and any Gulch would
    need an analog of that to protect it from federal and state power.
    imo, a successful Gulch would be met with a response from the feds like the FBI in Waco.
    Public relations would then have to exceed the deep state propaganda effort.
    And you think a boycott of enemy products is unrealistic?
    This is a war for our liberty and the enemy will do ANYTHING to win, including genocide.
    If we don't treat this as a war, freedom is a fond memory and
    all we will have is propaganda promises.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ 25n56il4 2 years ago
    I haven't visited my favorite places in several years, since my BFF and traveling companion died. But we enjoyed visiting one very primitive spot up in East Texas where no one cared what you did if you didn't burn down the forest and you could camp peacefully without any interruptions. No roads thru the forest except one shell road, my RV didn't care, and no electricity, running water, or campsites. Do it yourself! Very primitive. I carried my side arm and she was more than proficient with her bow and arrows!
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Although I don't work in the best of companies, I have to say I feel somewhat lucky. I have a flexible schedule, I can work from home, I'm not micromanaged, and it's a small organization. I have never had to sit through ESG or DEI trainings (funny that used to be a given).

    I've always interpreted the Galt philosophy (I could be wrong) as "Don't work hard to support the looters," but my take is that I can work hard to support myself. Don't be a slave to others where you give your mental effort and have it taken advantage of. I think the management of my company, while not the most competent people, are not James Taggart types.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by mhubb 2 years ago in reply to this comment.
    we do the best we can with what we have

    food
    water
    guns
    ammo
    people like minded to gather and help each other
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by jack1776 2 years ago
    I’m sorry but the most important resource is like minded people with skills. I know a few people now that I left Commiefornia but its still a far cry from everyone we need. This is doing the story book version of going Galt. Replacing the food production would be easy, enough like minded farms exist I think. How about medical? Lawyers? Oh, assembly line workers? Just saying its a fantasy.

    I like Freedomforall suggestion of boycotting the woke companies but its unrealistic.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by mhubb 2 years ago
    it can in several different ways

    i have my own personal Gulch
    i no longer offer my creativity at work, unless it suits my needs
    i do my job, but that is all
    as i feel the need to protect my family, i simply cannot pack up and run

    there may be other ways and other places where it possible.
    in this day and age of IDs and computers and government, it may require being in a different part of the world
    Reply | Permalink  

  • Comment hidden. Undo