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Getting MESSAGE OUT

Posted by Freedom2 9 months ago to Politics
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I have probably directed 100 people to read Atlas -- all say they are interested, but never had any come back to talk to me about it -- of course some people I mention it to are customers or clerks in stores. I first STARTED to read it when it first came out [I was 10 abd big on Greek Myths] my father was a big reader and he had bought a paperback. I saw it and started to read it thinking it was about Olympus! Stopped at about page 100 -- but got back to the whole thing when I was in U of Chicago Graduate School with Milton Friedman and others. My wife tried it, but gave up after maybe 50 pages, and constantly asked mt WHO IS JOHN GALT!


All Comments

  • Posted by KRUEG 8 months, 4 weeks ago
    First reading was in High School in the sixties. Wow it was a lengthy book, and kind of boring at the time. Have re-read it many times since then.
    I state again that it seems to be a training manual of the negative things that can be done to our country,
    OH and using 1984 as a play book for the democrats. SHE WAS NEVER CALLED A BORDER CZAR! Attempting to re-write history.
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  • Posted by term2 8 months, 4 weeks ago
    I suggest a lot of people read atlas Shrugged, but I always tell them they will probably not get through over 1000 pages, BUT if they want to understand current events, just remember that this is not really a novel, but in reality more of a predictive documentary of current events (but written about 75 years ago by a very smart lady)
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  • Posted by Tavolino 8 months, 4 weeks ago
    An interesting article in "getting message out."
    2024: Spreading Objectivism Face to Face - SAVVY STREET
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  • Posted by Tavolino 9 months ago
    Objectivism is a difficult system of concepts to perk someone’s interest. If you give them Atlas, they get a hernia lifting the book, let alone tackling the intimidating read with tiny print. Owning a busy, successful five-star restaurant for many years, I would personally see several thousand patrons weekly, many professionals, thriving business people, and astute intellectuals with whom I would try to engage in conversation. I had copies of many essays, and if I were talking to a teacher, I would give her a copy of The Comprachios, a doctor would get the Death of a Profession, and so on. That was a problem because as many of them saw the complexity of the writing or thought it was “philosophy,” they were put off, fearing a lack of understanding or not wanting to invest the time. The “sale” of Objectivism needs to strike a common chord in a positive manner to keep the “buyer” interested. One needs to find the button that motivates them to be inquisitive. I found my solution with Biddle’s book, “Loving Life.” I began giving copies to those with who I wanted to open conversation; after all, who could object to such a positive title? It is also plainly written and easily understood by any thinking person, no matter how confused they may be about their own happiness. Over the years, I have given away over 300 copies, with at least 20% wanting to continue the conversation, and probably 25 have taken a keen interest in Objectivism. That is what I found to entice the newly inquisitive without fearing their ignorance of philosophy or reading what they think is Homer’s Odyssey. Just my experience in trying to convert one mind at a time.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You tuned out like I thought many would. Yet you at least read the rest of the book and even came back to study the entire speech. Good for you!
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One of my favorite things is when people tell me what I don't get to do. Thanks for that.

    I didn't say I didn't sympathize. I said young people and those unfamiliar with Ayn (or other Soviet immigrants) didn't

    Are you trying to convince me that what I have observed is incorrect, or inappropriate? Sure it is inappropriate, but if one wants to bring people along, one doesn't start by trying to convince them to be sympathetic to a pretty bristly person. One starts with tangible examples (like test grade communism) and philosophy.

    Here is a perfect example:
    "When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing—when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors—when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you—when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice—you may know that your society is doomed.”
    Ayn Rand 1957

    She is exactly right, but unnecessarily verbose.

    Rand-Hate, that is just precious! What I am not is blinded to her flaws.

    It looks like the Listerine Crowd is back everyone. EWE.
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As far as I can tell. Leonard Peikoff holds the rights. He sold the rights for the production of the AS movie, but I would be astonished if someone else now holds any rights to future attempts.
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  • Posted by loneeagle 9 months ago
    I read in 2002 while sailing alone in the Bahamas for two weeks. Have recommended to many and bought a few copies as gifts.
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  • Posted by Steven-Wells 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Singular!
    You don’t get to take umbrage when you throw in a previously unmentioned other book into a long discussion entirely about a single book.
    The Fountainhead had not been mentioned until your reply. It is a long and fairly tedious book. The movie is quite accessible as an alternative.
    Now we can talk about plurals.
    Let’s include the easy reads, Anthem and the play, The Night of January 16th.I saw that as a live performance where I sat on the jury. I acquitted.
    We can include the non-fiction footnotes to AS: The Romantic Manifesto. The Virtue of Selfishness. Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. Philosophy: Who Needs It. All are straightforward to read.
    For a very slow and difficult read, assuming one takes the effort to digest it, the worthwhile: Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology.

    Now we get to, “Russian-to-English overbearing, berating diatribe, because they refuse to sympathize with her for her violent and oppressed path,” and all that venom. Does Rand-Hate get your philosophical points across?
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    With all the pathetically horrible tv being done, a one season mini-series should be produced.
    Would be a great start for Elon's X to move into entertainment.
    He can afford it and it's the message he claims to support..
    Who has the rights now?
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Plural - Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead. You can write it off if you like, but I maintain from direct experience that most people do not enjoy reading them, and therefore, don't slog through the Russian-to-English overbearing, berating diatribe, because they refuse to sympathize with her for her violent and oppressed path the way they might for others with more recent experiences they can connect with. If you are having success using AS to communicates and bring people around, great. However, I doubt it very much.
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  • Posted by Rex_Little 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think they were unsure at the start whether they'd be able to make all three movies, so they couldn't sign anyone long term. But yeah, the cast changes were really hard to swallow. For one thing, the characters in part 2 looked to be about 15 years older than the same ones in part 1. Then in part 3 they seemed 5-10 years younger than in part 2. Anyone watching the movies without having read the book had to be hopelessly confused.
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  • Posted by Steven-Wells 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    “The books suck to read”? I immediately write off a statement by someone who demonstrates a contradiction before getting close to the substance of the claim.
    Atlas Shrugged is a single book. The one (1) book was presented as three (3) movies in 2011, 2012, and 2014.
    Around 45 years ago, a friend/coworker handed me a paperback copy of Atlas Shrugged. It started as a mystery story. At the first line, “Who is John Galt?”† Then the mystery of Halley’s Fifth Concerto. Then why was Owen Kellogg quitting despite what seemed like every possible reason to stay? Meanwhile, I saw a character who knew how to be in charge and make things happen. And that was in the first 25 pages.
    A few days later, I said to my friend, “Here’s your book back. I don’t want it. I bought my own copy.” From there, we had lots of discussion as I progressed through the book. Had I gotten to Francisco’s speech about money? Oh, yes! And, yes, John Galt’s speech took me the same time to read as it would have taken to broadcast.
    A philosophy treatise. Comedic/ironic elements like a weapon called the Thompson Harmonizer. And an old bum answers, “What is morality?” with, “Judgement to distinguish right and wrong, vision to see the truth, and courage to act upon it, dedication to that which is good, integrity to stand by the good at any price.”
    I noticed that I could map anyone from the major real-world news to a character in the book.

    Yes, it takes a very long time to read and digest. Too long?
    Here’s Atlas Shrugged, the ultimately abridged edition, omitting everything between the first and last lines.
    “Who is John Galt?”
    He raised his hand and over the desolate earth he traced in space the sign of the dollar.


    † We noticed that typing, “Who is John Galt” on an MS-DOS command line provided the answer:
    Bad command or file name
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Gotcha.

    I really liked AS1. Assume $, but not sure why AS2 and AS3 bombed out. Really downhill. We should do them over, and use BuyDumb/Obummer and other examples (like Dept of Misinformation - Ministry of Truth) as connections.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh, I get it and that's why I noted "trying to reach people who hate to read" which probably includes about 90% of people under 40 years old.
    A Gulcher saying "the books suck to read" can easily be manipulated to say don't waste time with Ayn Rand's books.
    Rand's message is what's important. If the movies get some of that across to some people, great,
    but the books are the complete message and the movies don't come close because they are not even good
    productions. AS 1 movie was a fair production and AS2 and AS3 were downhill from there.
    I would recommend The Fountainhead movie instead to get someone a taste.
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  • Posted by $ rainman0720 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The unabridged audio book was my intro to AS. Bought my own copy, and I've probably listened to it a couple dozen times since then. Best non-fiction book I've ever experienced (even thought it was supposed to be fiction, unless Ayn Rand could see into the future...)
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    To each his own. We are talking about getting other people interested. I have pressed a few to read AS, and all feedback was precisely as I note.

    Fine that you like it, but irrelevant in getting others over the hump. This is very much like Listerine EWE pontificating and giving us reading homework, rather than discussing simply.
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  • Posted by tutor-turtle 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not to crow about getting through 6 years of collage, but for those who made it, you slogged through some pretty heavy reading material (varying greatly with your chosen major) and not all of it nearly as engaging as AR.
    It takes effort to read ~1,000 pages and stay with it.
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The first time I read AS, I got part-way into Galt's speech and then just skipped past it to read the rest of the story. After the 1100 pages finished, I went back and reread the speech as it was intended, a separate, independent, scholarly thesis, and analyzed it thoroughly. Idealism is admirable if not inflicted by force. Through the years I read the book 6 times. I'd like to find the time for one more reading. No, I don't want the audio version; that contaminates Rand's original product. Even occasional misprints are an annoyance. One paperback had over 500 errors, probably from not checking the copying process. I marked up the whole book and sent it to Peikoff and never heard back. I can only hope that the next edition was cleaned up.
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  • Posted by 9 months ago
    I saw the 3 part Atlas Shrugged movie, over the 3 year period it was produced. I was surprised that they did not sign major players to long term contracts and wonder HOW THEY EXPLAIN that Dagney, for example is not the same person [actor] in part 2 as in part a. Can anyone help me out here? my direct e mail says a lot about me JOHNGALT2@VERIZON.NET Steve
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 9 months ago
    I must have missed something. I think the entirety of her philosophy is spelled out in "Galt's Speech". The rest of the book is an attempt to lead one to be prepared for a final summation of Objectivism. But that's just me.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I can't agree about the book or the movies unless you are trying to reach people who hate to read. (But I love to read .)
    AS is a great beach vacation read, although it may interfere with other activities since it's hard to stop once you start.
    My first read was in every spare minute I had as a 'road warrior' over a summer month. It took that long because I was
    consulting 60+ hours a week and paid by the hour. ;^)
    My only complaint in AS was Galt's speech. Intolerably long-winded and certain to frustrate even the most avid reader.
    It's the movies that are a real letdown in comparison to the book.
    For context, I think most youtube videos are intolerably bad at getting to the point and time wasters compared to a transcript
    or compared to a concise article on the same material.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 months ago
    Me dino read the whole long thing a good while after my most conservative of brothers Christmas gifted me with all the AS DVDs and I asked, "Who is Ayn Rand?"~~researched her, stumbled upon The Gulch and decided to land in it.
    Being in The Gulch, I felt compelled to read the novel and I did. It's on a book shelf behind me.
    Had a problem suspending belief over the everlasting length of John Galt's radio speech as written in the novel.
    I was thinking many a listener would tune out just as many a reader quit reading the book. How many times do you need to say "A is A" even though an A is most definitely an A?
    That speech was condensed for the DVD version.
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