"you actively support a party whose policies weaken capitalism."
This is sort-of true b/c I support Democrats and Republicans, and the parties sometimes do things to weaken capitalism, even though I lobby them not to.
"You support universal healthcare which requires mandatory participation or be fined."
Partly true. Is your point about me personally or about these issues? I would love to talk about gov't subsidy of healthcare, health insurance mandate, etc, but if the topic is who is a more rigtheous person, that's pointless. It's unlikely one of us will be swayed and convinced he's evil; and I would be fundamentally opposed to that goal anyway.

Seizure of property without due process is a type of "execution".
Having your life zeroed-out and starting over again because someone accuses you falsely and decimates your life through using the legal system against you, your life and your freedom is the equivalent of murder.

In my case, it looks like it would be establishing my family in a country far away without any other family around for support. Millions of families have done it before here in America. So, it can be done. With that would probably come some lean times, financially, while I'd establish myself professionally. I'm starting to research that now, actually.

Well you actively support a party whose policies weaken capitalism. You support universal healthcare which requires mandatory participation or be fined. What was capitalistic about that?

Well frankly, Obama supporters are ok with a little capitalism. Any other system would give them less revenue.

The gulch is virtual. I get the romance of a physical gulch. But I don 't see the practicality.

Society may not be quite at the point where her four flags are met, however we are closer than many realize.

1. One party rule - The two parties talk a good game about their differences. However on the output side where the rest of us live, the effects are the same....more and more intrusive government, larger government, more taxes taken, ever expanding "social programs" that effectively mean whatever problem is never corrected, but instead becomes frozen in time to maintain the status quo.

2. Executions without trial for political offenses - I give you that one, no signs of that at all.

3. expropriation or nationalization of private property - that has been happening all along, federal land grabs for various reasons, imminent domain conflicts, other similar things.

4. Censorship - Political Correctness is the stalking horse for this. And it chokes off free speech more every day. It is absolutely the most insidious thing they have come up with.

We aren't there yet, but we are not all that far off either.

It doesn't seem worth it to "shrug" at this point. The nation may have problems, but it doesn't have the sort of problems that necessitate shrugging. I see little problem in being a part of everyday society.

Consider the following from her Playboy interview:

PLAYBOY: Throughout your work you argue that the way in which the contemporary world is organized, even in the capitalist countries, submerges the individual and stifles initiative. In Atlas Shrugged, John Galt leads a strike of the men of the mind -- which results in the collapse of the collectivist society around them. Do you think the time has come for the artists, intellectuals and creative businessmen of today to withdraw their talents from society in this way?

RAND: No, not yet. But before I explain, I must correct one part of your question. What we have today is not a capitalist society, but a mixed economy -- that is, a mixture of freedom and controls, which, by the presently dominant trend, is moving toward dictatorship. The action in Atlas Shrugged takes place at a time when society has reached the stage of dictatorship. When and if this happens, that will be the time to go on strike, but not until then.

[...]

RAND: A dictatorship has four characteristics: one-party rule, executions without trial for political offenses, expropriation or nationalization of private property, and censorship. Above all, this last. So long as men can speak and write freely, so long as there is no censorship, they still have a chance to reform their society or to put it on a better road. When censorship is imposed, that is the sign that men should go on strike intellectually, by which I mean, should not cooperate with the social system in any way whatever.

http://www.ellensplace.net/ar_pboy.html

As bad as things might be, they aren't that bad yet.

Example 3 - build a "business community" By this I mean an area for concentration and support of businesses. One of the problems when you start a business that deals in the supply of physical goods to customers is appropriate space for you business.

A business center with good access to transport (road/rail/air), energy, water, and communications is both a leg up for your business and attracts other businesses to dilute your costs.

Again, very possible to make pretty self funding where the non-gulch businesses are diluting the costs for the gulch.

And a nearby neighborhood of residences would not raise any eyebrows.

Example 2 - build a gated community. This would be in many ways the absolute easiest way to create a physical gulch. Your community would have a membership approval process to screen out the undesired.

This can be done anywhere technically, but to be effective cover you pick a region where gated communities are already around. This way you don't stick out as a group of oddballs.

That would be partially dependent on the face you presented to outsiders to some extent.

Example 1 - one proposal is to purchase a hotel/ small resort that has either gone under or is close to doing so. You then rehab it re-open, but this time with some major changes to purpose. If it is done as part short term rental for vacationers/tourists and part permanent residents, it can even be self funding. Permanent residents would of course have to "buy in" in one form or another.

While possible almost anywhere, to be a paying proposition you need to be in a location that draws that short term clientele.

Sounds like fun. Where would your mini Gulch be?

Yes. One stated goal of the moochers was for things not to change, for no one business to stop producting or produce something that disrupts other businesses. So it's more likely that the world will develop slower while a loose network of Gulches develop game changing technologies and goes from being a backwater to a regional power to a superpower in a few hundred years, like the colonies in North America. I bet that notion sounded weird in colonial times too.

One of the reasons for going to the Gulch is to accelerate technology. The book addressed this with the Doctor in the Gulch. AS II had a cool delta wing aircraft with VTO. That scene made a statement. The destroyer had superior technology. As the socialist world was rolling backwards the Gulch was advancing.

LOL. Same image for me.

The image that invokes for me would be a big rough stone figure.....like an Easter Island statue.

:)

The title of this post makes "Shrug" seem like a deity that requires sacrifice like an ancient god. ;)

P.S. Before anyone goes off on me about being theistic, I am trying to have a little humor here.

I submit that is part of 1.

Part of the lifestyle I desire anyway :)

What will I give up to shrug?
While I'm going to try avoid giving anything up, but $25 bottles of wine and $20 cigars may have to be trimmed.
But until then, Cheers!

And 4. Allows you to live and function with freedom and fidelity to yourself. (Though will be limits to expression which will suck)

All it takes is ingredients, culinary experience, and persistence in testing.

Thank you. I do not care about points/approval, but I'd like those who disagree with something to state it aloud.

There are reasons to sometimes downvote CG, although I rarely do, but this was not one of them. I'm giving you your point back, CG.

Honestly CG, whoever is down pointing you is doing it because its you.

Not because they disagree with capitalism, but probably because as an Obama supporter they do not believe you do.

I don't know who is doing it however.