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Atlas Shrugged -- For Adults Only

Posted by starlisa 11 years, 4 months ago to Books
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The first thing I read by Rand was Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.

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THIS ARTICLE REPURPOSED FROM: http://lamrot-hakol.blogspot.com/2012/10...

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The other day, I was talking to my partner about Atlas Shrugged at the dinner table, and my 12 year old daughter asked what it was. I told her it's a book by Ayn Rand, and that she can't read it until she's 21.

My partner stared at me and asked why. After all, I'm an Objectivist. I think Rand's philosophy is incredibly important. So why would I bar my daughter from reading it until she's an adult?

I've felt this way for at least a decade, but given the President's comments about Ayn Rand's books being something you'd pick up as a 17-18 year old feeling misunderstood, and then get rid of once you realized that thinking only about yourself wasn't enough, I thought it would be worthwhile to explain why kids shouldn't read Atlas Shrugged.

The thing is, Obama is right. In a way. Let me explain that.

I didn't read Atlas Shrugged until I was 33 years old. In fact, other than Anthem, which I may have read in passing in high school, I never read anything of Rand's until I was 32, and I started with her essays. Maybe I'll post about how and why I got into those at a later date. But as someone who didn't get into Rand's philosophy as a kid, it took me a while to realize that for the vast majority of people, reading it as a teenager is almost inevitably going to create the opposite effect that Rand had in mind.

There's a common misconception that Objectivism is about being selfish and grasping and greedy. It's an understandable misunderstanding. After all, Rand wrote a book of essays called The Virtue of Selfishness. She spoke against altruism and in favor of selfishness. The thing is, though, that in Rand's writing, those are "terms of art". A term of art, or jargon, is a word that's used a specific way in a specific field, regardless of how it's used colloquially. In politics, to "depose" means to remove a leader. In law, to "depose" means to have someone give a deposition. In medicine, an "ugly" infection is one that doesn't respond well to antibiotics.

We're all familiar with groups "reclaiming" perogative words. "Queer" was an insult when I was growing up, and it still is for a lot of people. Yet to the younger generation of GLBT teens, "queer" is simply how they identify. Rand used the term "selfish" to mean acting to further ones long term and global well being, given the understanding that we are not alone in the world, and that what I do to others can be done to me as well. There is no other way to describe that in a single world, so far as I'm aware, than selfishness. Or if we allow a modifier, "rational selfishness".

But Rand failed. She failed to communicate this in a way that would be clear enough to get past the negative connotations of selfishness as meaning a blind, grasping devotion to ones short term desires, paying no attention to the world around us. Even expanding the term to "rational selfishness" didn't work, because people understood "rational" to mean "cold and unemotional" and concluded that "rational selfishness" meant cold, hard, unemotional, uncaring selfishness. Like a robot that lacks all empathy.

But adolescents are a different story. Adolescence is a time when we are detaching ourselves from our role as dependent children, and learning to stand on our own, personally empowered. When I was 17, I remember one evening during an argument with my father, exclaiming, "You're a person, and I'm a person. Why should you have any more right to decide than I do!" And I was absolutely convinced of my righteousness. Two years later, when my younger brother was 17, I heard him say virtually the exact same thing. I looked at my father and said, "I'm so sorry, Dad. And I wish there was some way I could explain it to him." But I knew there wasn't. You can't explain that to an adolescent. They have to learn to grow up and realize that the world doesn't revolve around them.

Which is one of the reasons why a lot of adolescents love Atlas Shrugged. They miss the bigger picture, and only pick up on the message that they shouldn't have to sacrifice themselves for others. Which is a good message, but they conflate it with their irrational selfishness. Their self-centered, almost solipsistic view of the world. And when they do grow up, as most of them do, they jettison Objectivism, thinking that it's part and parcel of the adolescent mindset they no longer need.

And that's why Obama said what he did. It's absolutely true that 17 and 18 year olds who are feeling misunderstood, and whose self is feeling threatened would pick up Atlas Shrugged and see it as a vindication of what they're feeling. And it's absolutely true that someone like that reading the book would, in the vast majority of cases, throw it away once they grow up and realize that we're all in this together, so to speak.

And that's why I won't let my daughter read the book. Because it takes a certain amount of maturity to understand that the kind of altruism that says doing for others is always more moral than doing for oneself is evil and anti-human, but that benevolence and empathy are vitally important virtues. The vice of altruism always leads to bad results in the long run, even if it may seem beneficial in the short term. Because giving requires a recipient. And if receiving is a bad thing, there's always going to be someone bad and wretched. More than that, you're always going to need poor people, because without them, you can never be virtuous. It's an ugly world that raises altruism up as the highest virtue.

Perhaps we need to find another term to reflect what Rand called "selfishness". The battle to reclaim that word was lost before it even started. All it does now is feed into the ignorance of the left.


All Comments


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  • Posted by Danno 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    " the obliteration of self in service to humanity. Any other meaning is a twisting to avoid the fact."

    Agree. Pretty much what I meant. One can not kill the instinct only twist it in the frontal lobe to become misguided nonsense.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 3 months ago
    A teen (child) whose parents haven't given them enough guidance to understand the difference between self-interest and self-centeredness is taking a step into adulthood with a severe handicap. Collectivist have understood that concept very well and have taken full advantage of the opportunity of parents that haven't exercised that basic parent/child communication, through the schools. They are often taught by collectivist that being selfish is wrong and sharing is good.

    One of the earliest concepts a child develops is, mine - not yours. Many will try to expand that to everything else available. The parent has to teach them to limit that to what is truly theirs and that others feel the same way about what is theirs. They have to also teach them that it's right to protect what is theirs and that others should do so as well. They continually encounter takers and bullies in there school mates. If they've learned the mine and yours concepts well enough and the difference between self-interest and self-centeredness, they've also developed a good self esteem that is a shield from such.

    A teen's (child) consternation comes from not having a firm grasp of that basic concept and then being exposed to the continuous peer and teacher pressure to fit in, yet knowing deep down that it's just not right. How do they resolve that if they're denied information beyond their parents words? AS is written so that anyone with the basic understanding of what is mine and what is yours is yours can grasp and understand the ideals expressed there and gain confidence in what the parents have taught.

    What better way to re-enforce what the parent has taught than to let them explore the writings of others that think and reason like their parents do, such as AR.

    As to finding another term to reflect 'selfishness', that is nothing more than allowing others (collectivist) to define you. I think AR went through a lot of thought to arrive at that word.

    For me, I choose to struggle against other's attempts to define me or redefine or conflate the terms and descriptions I understand to explain my reasons and logic. We've allowed that type of nonsense for far too long.
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  • Posted by $ Genez 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree 100%. I have only told the kids they needed to be at least teens due to the 'adult' scenes in AS. I read it around 16 and it definitely helped me to understand some of what was wrong with the general populace that didn't seem to value excellence or achievement (at least in academic areas). I think how a person understands it and how they understand the 'virtue of selfishness' has everything to do with their maturity and their worldview. My wife and I were married at 19 and are still married today over 25 years later. For many of the teens I know today, they are not capable of understanding it, let alone getting the real meaning out of it. If you know that your child is not capable of understanding the book and it's concepts I can see suggesting they wait. On the other hand the only thing I've ever not allowed my kids to read was due to sexual nature of some scenes in a few books and even that I pretty much let it go once they hit 18..
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you make the time to read "Atlas Shrugged" you will find that the collapse of James Taggart is prefigured in an off-hand comment by Francisco d'Anconia talking to Dagny Taggart. He asks her rhetorically how she intends to actually make herself perfectly clear to the Board; and she says, "They're men. They want to live, don't they?" And Francisco replies, "Do they?"

    The psycho-epistemology of the looter, the moocher, the muscle-mystic is based on the evasion of reality. Evasion of objective reality the external world is only a consequence of their internal evasions, supressions, and repressions.

    Most people get through life to the end of their days without having to face the ULTIMATE consequences of their DEEPEST contradictions.

    The world ALTRUISM was invented about 1840 by Auguste Comte. I read that work for a graduate class paper I wrote on Herbert Spencer. Comte meant exactly what Ayn Rand said he did: the obliteration of self in service to humanity. Any other meaning is a twisting to avoid the fact.
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  • Posted by Danno 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No I haven't. To clarify I think there is only one Selfishness based on fear of death. Collectivists have been brainwashed to twist words and instincts to say Altruism is not selfish. Complete nonsense.
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  • Posted by mbpost 11 years, 3 months ago
    I read both Atlas and Fountainhead at age 12 and fell in love with both books as works of art and as proponents of a life philosophy that resonated with me. I would have found them eventually, but finding them early helped me create my viewpoint on the world early.

    I think the best age of exposure depends upon the individual. As parent, you get to make that decision. But if any parent can fill in the "backstory" or flesh out Rand's intentions, it would surely be you. What a great opportunity for you and your daughter to share that discovery.

    I agree that Rand's ideas are sometimes misused and misinterpreted. But that has been done by adults, too.
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  • Posted by sptourigny 11 years, 3 months ago
    Your fear is unwarranted. Read it at 15 and again at 35. I'd rather take the chance than not have it read at all!
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You seem not to know the historical context of Atlas Shrugged. Also, if you re-read it more closely, you will see that your generalization is unsubstantiated.

    When Rand wrote "Atlas Shrugged" psychology was still caught between Freud and Skinner. The "Human Potential" movement of Maslow, gestalt, and all that was just beginning. And it is also fraught with its own errors. I pointed out in another thread that Noam Chomsky totally demolished Skinner, twice. Chomsky, however, was not someone whom Rand would have embraced and he was not a psychologist, but a linguist. Would you fault the book for having no linguists? (Actually, there is an oblique reference. Dagny asks a man who looks like a truck driver if he was a professor of comparative philology. He said, "No, ma'am I was a truck driver...") Nathaniel Branden had only finished his doctorate and had not started to practice. No consistent school of rational psychology existed. So, Rand would not have had any psychologists of merit in the book, only "morale conditioners" of the behaviorist clique.

    Atlas has a doctor in the Gulch. Dr. Hendricks treats Dagny first at the crash site and then later for a check-up. He has developed a portable x-ray machine from which the outside world will not benefit.

    The Gulch has a professor of economics who could not get a job because he taught that you cannot consume more than you produce.

    The lawyer in "Atlas" is Judge Narragansett.

    Rearden's accountant is praised for his ability to squeeze a nickel.

    More to the point, Rand explained in "The Romantic Manifesto" why such people as she did write about are suitable for fiction that "everyone" can identify with.

    I also underscore Lucky's comment about the bus driver. After her revelation speech on the radio, Dagny gets a deep "thank you" from a taxicab driver. Scenes such as those are all through "Atlas Shrugged."
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  • Posted by TexasLadyJuanita 11 years, 3 months ago
    What a bunch of "bloviating" crap. I read all of Rand in High School. I am 61 and have read hundreds of books since then (probably thousands). The only two books I have read more than once is Atlas Shrugged and the Holy Bible. I am able to reconcile the two. I highly recommend sculpting the young adult mind with many books, including Rand.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Have you read "The Virtue of Selfishness"? Nathaniel Branden as two essays on the false selfishness you seem to accept.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Words have specific meanings; skirt around them and you create problems. "Selfish" doesn't fail, people do in explaining it. Only irrational minds have such problems. If we had a "world populated by rational people", we would be in Galt's Gulch.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That was Rand's argument. The question is, is it more important to communicate the concept or is it more important to insist on a particular word? In Intro to Objectivity Epistemology, she wrote at length about the fact that concepts come first and words are only verbal symbols which exist for the purpose of communicating those concepts. If the word selfish is failing in this task, it's irresponsible of us to keep fighting for a denotative meaning which no one understands. I mean, if we want to live in a world populated by rational people, why would we want to work towards that in a way in which our rational minds can plainly see is not effective?
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  • Posted by Vinay 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It speaks volumes that there is an absence of doctors, economists, psychologists, lawyers. Doctors she admired in her non-fictional work. There is no express disdain, just a subtle, subliminal, even an unplanned message.
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  • Posted by FBGDave 11 years, 3 months ago
    What a load of crap this letter is ... I read AS for the first time when I was 15 and understood it all to well. It absolutely changed my life, for the better. I followed it with Fountainhead. I did not know that obama had made comments about AS, but being the champion of looters that he is, that does not surprise me. He is the type that AS scares, as is the fool that wrote this letter..
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  • Posted by tdechaine 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Help her understand the compatability between acting selfishly and compassion - there need not be any conflict. Also note that liberals/ collectivists are altruistic only to the extent that they can get government to force us all to participate in the altruism to lower their burden.
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  • Posted by minis4ever 11 years, 3 months ago
    I first read AS at 12, and then usually every 5 years since then. Then read other Rand writings in between times. I am due to re-read AS now as a matter of fact. I need that AS fix to help me get through our current political problems. As I grew, so did AS. I base my life on Objectivism. I believe I am a better person for having done so. It has led to extreme conversations with my father, friends of AR, and ignorant folk that believe she is a quack. Starting at an early age with this book is an education in and of itself. It helped make me a thinker not a user. The word is selfless, not selfish. To censor is to control. Our Country is there now, and failure seems eminent. Unless this child is severely immature, I see no reason to not allow her the book. Reading only brings us forward with new thoughts.
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  • Posted by Danno 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Even a person who strongly believe in collectivism is selfish since he thinks that approach will bring him the most material comfort. There is nothing but selfishness. If you are are truly not selfish in your frontal lobe then you maim yourself physically and die early.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I discuss things with her. And she hears me talking (arguing) with other people. My main concern is that she has a big heart. A lot of people who go the collectivist route get there because of their compassion. Compassion sits at the fork in the road, with on fork going to irrationality and altruism, and the other going to rationality and benevolence.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is why people misunderstand! Selfishness necessarily places one's self above all else, and that enables one to care for others. In trade, if both traders are not putting themselves first, the trade cannot be a win-win. You're playing symantics.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 11 years, 3 months ago
    I agree with the posts: read the book as early as you are able to read and comprehend. The missing element in the above viewpoint is the parent: isn't he/she supposed to be assisting the child as he/she develops? Shouldn't the parent be able to monitor and discuss such books to ensure that the ideas presented are integrated/intrepreted correctly?
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  • Posted by jljaxon 11 years, 3 months ago
    I read Atlas Shrugged for the first time (probably read 4-5 times by now) when I was 16. It took me less than 24 hours, but I stayed up all night and sat in the back of class and read it all the next day. I was struck by the fact that she unabashedly stood up for capitalism even though our society asserted that it was evil and selfish. I have encouraged my sons to read it and age be damned. There needs to be a counter-balance to what they are taught in school and popular culture.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 11 years, 3 months ago
    Thanks for the interesting post. I was looking for a book to read in my sophomore year of college and my mom recommended The Fountainhead. It reminded me of the tale of Galileo and Catholic Church. I was so taken with the story, which I started just before finals week. Eventually I decided I would not get any studying done until I had finished it, so I put off studying and read nonstop so I could get on with my finals.

    I read Atlas Shrugged about six months later. The thing that was hardest for me to accept was her stance against state funding for science. However, within a five years I would see how government funding was being used to distort science. (See the ozone layer and acid rain at that time)

    I don't believe it would have matter if I had read in late high school or in college or later. My desire to better understand the details of what she was saying caused me to read all of her non-fiction books that were out at the time.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 11 years, 3 months ago
    I've seen other authors - mainly economists like Milton Friedman - who instead of using the word selfishness use self-interest instead.

    Selfishness is a motive centered in placing self above all else - thus it rightly has a negative connotation. I can pursue self-interest on the other hand - especially through the market - at the same time as everyone else. Market transactions take place when my self-interest for one thing matches another individual's pursuit of another thing and we both trade believing that we have in some measure fulfilled our self-interest.

    Selfishness is a zero-sum game. Self-interest isn't. That's the difference.
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  • Posted by Lucky 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi Vinay- I like your story and comments but I do have a different take.
    I recall in AS, engineers are prominent among the role models as well as entrepreneurs. When I read again I will look out for who gets looked down on. Yes it could be that medics were dealt a poor hand but as for economists and psychologists.. (I hope few here).
    Ayn Rand respected, perhaps even revered, the working man who took pride in his skill. On page 2 of my copy of AS she describes a bus expertly steered, there is no other function for this episode except to express respect for the driver. Again, consider the recruitment for the train driver of the first John Galt train, all the drivers are very sympathetically drawn, the union leader tho' is a clear villain.
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  • Posted by $ minniepuck 11 years, 3 months ago
    this is an interesting post. thanks, starlisa. I respect your parenting decision. I imagine every teenager reacts differently to AS should they read it at that age. I don't have kids of my own, so I can't share any of those experiences. I'll just say that I read Anthem first as a teen and then AS which I found interesting but didn't fully know what to make of it. I read it again as a freshman in college, and it's impact was cemented a bit more. Now in my late 20's, I've read it for a third time and have the best grasp of it so far. life experience (as limited as it is for me thus far, as pointed out by a small army of men and women in their 50's and 60's who love and care for me like I'm their daughter) helps mold reaction and understanding. I imagine I'll read it at least 3x more in years to come and continue understanding other aspects of the novel I've so far missed. it is important to be mature and humble enough to understand you have much more to learn. I realize youth and it's oftentimes accompanied immaturity is largely an impediment to that. anyway, helping my husband run his business makes me passionate about AS's message, so here I am--learning from the producers of this site that have been at this longer than I have. for me, AS was the catalyst that started me down a new, long path of thinking, discovery, and understanding. I've a ways to go, but it's well worth the effort. I hope the same excitement of discovery for your daughter when she's ready.

    what do you allow your child to read? do you talk to her about Rand, or will you have her discover her writing on her own later in life?
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