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Why I fled libertarianism — and became a liberal

Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 3 months ago to Culture
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In a lot of ways, I can really relate to what this guy says. I myself also have a very low tolerance for most conspiracy theories (Operation Northwoods is really the only one that has any shred of credibility, primarily because it actually has official documentation to back it up), and I also share his abhorrence of the Tea Party (which, as far as I can tell, has an ideology virtually identical to that of the Ku Klux Klan). Yet in spite of that, I personally still consider myself a Libertarian, but it's probably my own unique, left-leaning brand of Libertarianism; very different from the radical, far-right fundamentalist extremism that the Teabaggers believe in.

It kind of makes me wonder... how many different “sub-parties” are there within the greater Libertarian party? The Libertarian party seems to be the go-to party for anyone who dislikes both Democrats and Republicans, which is actually a rather large percentage of the American people – they can't possibly all agree with each other. I suppose there is also the Constitution Party, which basically competes with Libertarianism, though it's not nearly as large.

Anyway, a big problem I noticed with this guy's argument is his claim that the lesson of the Great Depression was supposedly that government is supposed to help out during a catastrophic recession. But what he fails to realize is that the Great Depression would never have happened in the first place if the Federal Reserve didn't exist. I think G. Edward Griffin's book “The Creature from Jekyll Island” proves this point fairly well.

"The Creature from Jekyll Island," by G. Edward Griffin:
http://amzn.to/19mr04L

Like the author of the article, I also care about helping the poor and providing assistance for impoverished children, but I do have to question his assumption that government welfare is the only way to accomplish that. According to Ludwig von Mises, the best way to provide for the poor is through the free, unfettered capitalism that was advocated by Classical Liberalism, an ideology which is now unfortunately dead, having been replaced by Socialist Progressivism.

"Socialism - An Economic and Sociological Analysis," by Ludwig von Mises:
http://amzn.to/1hxz16B

The problem is not that the government is incompetent. Quite the contrary, the government is extremely competent. Rather, the problem is that the government simply doesn't care about its citizens. If it did, things might be very different. The simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority of politicians and bureaucrats – Democrats and Republicans alike – are only concerned with grabbing as much money for themselves and their friends as they possibly can. Serving the needs of the people is an auxiliary priority, if it is a priority at all. They are absolutely selfish, and I mean that according the traditional definition of the word, which means concern for yourself to the detriment of others, not Ayn Rand's custom definition which eliminates the “to the detriment of others” aspect (honestly, Ayn Rand should have just used the word “desire” instead – no unshakable negative connotations attached).

Now of course we need government, but its purpose should always be to protect us, never to provide for us (except for government employees). The task of providing for the entire population is simply too big to be handled by the government, and trying to do so cripples the economy, stripping people of their ability to provide for themselves, thus creating more poor people and increasing the size and cost of welfare programs. It's a destructive cycle that feeds into itself, and can only end in disaster. The correct solution is for the needs of the poor to be catered to through private charities, not government welfare.

Nevertheless, the author of the article does provide some good points to think about, even if he is only half-right.


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 3 months ago
    I read only the first half. I agree that libertarians have way more than our share of clowns. Ayn Rand supporters seem to be over 50% pure a$$holes who have found an ideology that they can make work with being a jerk.

    None of that "company we keep" should affect our ideology. I don't stop liking Rand's books and moderate libertarian ideas just because it puts me in a group with a lot of jerks and nuts.

    I actually think if libertarians formed a party that eagerly accepted anyone who agreed with decreasing gov't power and gov't expenditures (even by 1%), it would be a libertarian revolution. Most Americans, I suspect, want moderate libertarian policies--- less gov't messing with them, a little lower taxes and little less gov't services. Our voting choices are the "bipartisan consensus" of Dem/GOP arguing about marriage rights or libertarian nut jobs. I really wish we had a moderate libertarian option.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Instead of being offended, libertarians (maybe not quite the same thing as Objectivists) should ask the Tea Party to condemn racism and homophobia and say their one focus is cutting gov't spending. They could optionally add a second focus of cutting gov't intrusiveness.

    Obviously they can do what they want, but it seems to me the "bipartisan consensus" is we all argue about gun control, abortion, PPACA, and equal marriage rights. The "bipartisan consensus" says we cannot even debate scaling back the overall size and intrusiveness of gov't.

    The bipartisan consensus urges us to debate race, sex, sexual orientation, and anything that gets people fired up and not questioning the fundamental role of gov't.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is all MHO on something I'm still learning: People who are motivated to talk about public policy have an interest in promoting an ideology. Most of the world is different from these people and is out here solving problems. The world is run by those who show up. If you get out there and meet people who are in office and those who can bring donations, you can bring up specific issues of interest in a way you know won't offend. The boards of non-profits are often filled with people good at fund-raising, and they may be the same people or know the people who bring in political contributions. Tell them how happy you are when you get a vote consistent with what you would have. Give money to them even if you don't agree with everything. Get to know their staff, who are always at the fundraisers. When a vote is coming, mention a good talk you had with a staffer at the most recent fundraiser. That staffer may be the one reading it. You want him to report, "Gee mail, incl. mail from contributors, is really running against HR XYZ. Maybe we should see if someone can vote to get provision ABC stricken out of it so we won't alienate the libertarian techie crowd."
    I do this approach, and I've seen some success, BUT I can never know if they would have voted the same way without my lobbying. This is my lobbying approach. All the ideologue talking heads' bickering is nonsense, IMHO.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I've also typoed "defending" where I meant "defended", but that's a characteristic of racist xenophobes, I'm guessing.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    okay keep us informed...the teabaggers (and the racists and the xenophobes) want to know what's going on. :)
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  • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Pinky swear! "I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." And a toast on 2/2/14 will follow...
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  • Posted by Zero 11 years, 3 months ago
    --- WARNING ADULT CONTENT ---
    --- NO - REALLY - THIS WILL BE OFFENSIVE ---

    "Tea bagging" is when a male squats over his partner's face and lowers his scrotum into their mouth.

    It is not an obscure reference.
    College kids - and pervs of all ages - know exactly what "tea bagging" is.

    When first uttered in media interviews it was met with either shock, blank incomprehension, or nervous titters.

    Since then it has become a common derogatory tag.

    I am not one of those people who wear their indignation on their sleeve. Free discourse requires a thick skin.

    But if we were standing face to face our conversation would come to an abrupt halt as I took a menacing half-step forward and warned you in a voice not to be mistaken "Do NOT call me that again."

    --- END ADULT CONTENT ---

    I am proud to be Tea Party.
    The Boston Tea Party was a revolt against taxation.
    Nothing more - nothing less.

    So is the modern Tea Party.
    Nothing more - nothing less.

    It really begs the question:
    How can you NOT be Tea Party if you can do simple math?

    BTW, I am an Objectivist so by DEFINITION I am NOT a racist.
    Really - no joke - by DEFINITION.
    Racism is the lowest form of collectivist thought and the hallmark of a small mind.
    ----

    Not trying to get ugly on you Maph - you know we're good - you and I.
    But I really hate that ugly epithet and the way it has slipped into common usage.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Wait... you grew up in a conservative State devoid of Tea Partiers? I call BS...
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why are you so judgmental?
    BTW, you are a social anarchist. I suggest checking out Puerto Rico if you are looking for a community to identity with. North of Ricon the beaches are littered with them.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why thank you kind racist, you old xenophobe you. And Happy New Year and a lot more to come.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Being a racist and xenophobe, I felt compelled to support Allen Keyes in his bid for the White House, because, y'know... black man.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So you're a GOOD racist and xenophobe...

    I'd rather be a xylophone than a homophone...
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You don't want sites like that. I've defending what I consider pros of AS and attacked what I consider the cons of AS, and you don't like me and want me to shut up. So why would you want a whole site full of people who do the same?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You mean other than television, movies, newspapers and left-wing websites?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I've never endorsed genocide.
    Conquest of the middle east, or a general war against Islam, is not the same as eliminating a genotype. Eugenics is a game for the left.

    I've defended a person's right to be racist, homophiliac, sexist, ageist, or basically to like/dislike others based upon whatever criteria one chooses.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh, really? The laws on the books make abortion legal. The laws being pushed redefine marriage.
    There's where your "more laws" is coming from.

    Maph... I do not and have never belonged to any Tea Party. I just agree with their agenda. It's not right for you to associate the Tea Party with me simply because you dislike us both.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago
    I like to think that everyone voted you down for calling me a teabagger :(
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