1. how is it a slur?
2." Of course, if you are not gay then how would you know he was?" what??
3. Rand was heavily influenced by her brother-in-law Nick Carter (who was gay). however, that does not mean Frank was
4. there is an extraordinary circumstance of a husband seemingly content with being cuckolded for years. That is highly unusual. My speculation goes a long way to explaining it. .

The sentence is a negative innuendo , "if Frank was not gay" implies then X but you offer no X. the structure by use of if and not is a derogation of all the principles of Objectivism. Why do you think you can make unsubstantiated slurs on Miss Rand husband? Do you have mystical insight? Of course, if you are not gay then how would you know he was?.......

I'm curious why you would consider it a slur?

When I first read AS, I was in High School - and quite naive. It seemed to me that Dagny used her lovers as stepping stones to reflect the stage of her own character development: Fransisco, Rearden and finally Galt. For each 'step', the prior lover was no longer adequate to be a good match: An equal seeking an equal.

Insofar as Ayn's real life affairs are concerned, I find nothing reprehensible about her having multiple consensual lovers overtly. It is only the need to be sneaky and deceptive and covert that is demeaning. Certainly, our own culture is developing in the direction indicated in Ayn Rand's novels...having a series of lovers was much more scandalous in the 1950's than it is now.

Jan

Hi, L.S.
I think Rand fell in physical love with O'Connor, but not intellectual love. Truth be told, he was a very handsome man and she was no beauty by any stretch of the imagination. He turned out to be a person of low intellectual capacity. But he was an excellent gardener, and a good handyman, which was his limitation. He sacrificed his job(s) for her and devolved into a pleasant dependent. Who knows what actually went on in his mind. Brandon and Barbara came to her just as her star was rising and later explode upon the scene. They were young, fresh and had great intellectual capacity. Branden enhanced A.R.'s fame by spreading her philosophy through the Nathaniel Branden Institute and putting out classes and a newsletter.He never did her any harm as he was entranced certainly not by her looks but by her mind. They had an affair, actually two affairs with each other while both were married to someone else. What's the very worst that he did? He had another affair with someone else and was afraid to tell her and when she found out, her rage was way over the top. Keep in mind, that all of that has nothing to do with the fruit of her mind. The greatness of her novels, the brilliance of her philosophy will live on long after we are but memories.

This remark should be withdrawn. Unless you have empirical evidence to prove your insinuation justice requires that it be withdrawn. Objectivism is based on the recognition of objective reality and a loyalty to properly reducing concepts to their referent in reality. Slurs on Mr. O'Conner require proof or apology for violating justice and Objectivism.

I think Rand overthought sex, otherwise I find her views to be an excellent philosophy. I believe sexual partners need to be responsible for the outcome of their actions but other than that, it is just sex. Religions defined a moral basis because clerics were trying to control the behavior of the illiterate masses and to bind parents to raising their offspring. I do not believe that strict monogamy is natural or a value to be pursued. I don't think Rand ever came to terms with her philosophy and sexuality. It would be helpful to separate it from intellectuality and realize that sex is just sex.

The culture, undoubtedly stemming from religious teachings, is sex simply for its own sake is inherently bad in and of itself—something to be allowed only to express love or for procreation. Procreation and love are separate issues from just having a good time. Once we can control pregnancy and disease, what is wrong with an orgasm among friends?

Rand made many mistakes in her writings, and she was internally inconsistent at times. For example, Rand’s more explicit sex scenes seem to be rape fantasy oriented, including the initiation of the use of force. The theme is clear in both “The Fountainhead” and “Atlas.”

Wikipedia says ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantas... ): “Studies have found rape fantasy is a common sexual fantasy among both men and women. The fantasy may involve the fantasist as either the one being forced into sex or as the perpetrator. Some studies have found that women tend to fantasize about being forced or coerced into sexual activity more commonly than men.”

Maybe Rand portrayed her rape fantasy in her writing and acted out her animal desire for sexual variety with Branden and others not yet known or whose identities were suppressed to keep the idol from having clay feet. I suppose it depends upon the fantasy of the participants.

Good question. I wish we could ask her now how she feels about it.

Atlas is a work of fiction. Life doesn't always stick to the script.

Let's look at Ayn Rand ONLY and not be distracted by the book.

Based on her Objectivist principals, Ayn Rand and the two men involved apparently had a specific set of pre-defined values, and by value I do not mean morals, but a value for value exchange in how their relationships benefited each other.

All were consenting, all must have believed there was a value each was receiving that satisfied themselves.

Did you ever read where the two men openly complained about their "value" in the relationship?

Also Reardon satisfied Dagny's desire, and she satisfied Reardon's. When she met Galt, Dagny found more value in Galt, than Reardon,and Reardon accepted his value proposition to Dagny was not as much.

"Failure...when your best just isn't good enough."

I would say it simply was not one of her finest moments and strongly suspect Ayn Rand regretted the affair in the end -- e.g., listen to some of her last recordings about Frank before she died.

I personally speculate that Frank was into guys sexually. whether he lead a homosexual life in secret- I do not know. I do know that when Rand was in the hospital for an extended time (I'm not sure why) Frank stayed with his best friend instead of at home. As well, he and his friend would shop together for Ayn. The most famous example would be silk lingerie. Frank and his friend would pick out expensive under-garments for Rand. Granted, a romantic gift, but he needed his friend to help him choose? but these are anecdotal

Oh, I hate to admit that I don't get what you're saying about Frank. And I want to! Could you please elaborate?

I wonder what she and Branden would have done if they hadn't gotten permission.

I agree with the intellectual equal part. and if Frank was not gay, well ...A is A

I'd love to hear what Gulchers think

Thank you. You made my day. :) oh crap... did kh put you up to this???

That makes a lot of sense. I have often thought that the mechanics of love making are that the man is stronger and in control and that the woman must feel complete trust in him. To me that has meant a man who I admire as well as trust. I remember Rand expresses in Fountainhead the joy of looking up at a superior or equal intellect.
What you are saying makes sense, and this is what I wanted. Thanks

I've wondered about it too. I think she had some complicated sexual issues. In an interview with Barbara she explained that her opinion was that since Rand always had to be so in control all the time that being in the bedroom was where she wanted someone else in control (Roark and Dominique) and it tied in with being with an intellectual equal...which she never found. I can't remember what interview this was with Barbara but it tied up some of my confusion.

I wasn't clear about Dagny and Rearden. I meant that once she fell in love with Galt, she could no longer be Reardens lover.
And you are right that it's nobody's business in one sense. I'm just trying to understand. The fact that she had the affair does not affect how much
her writings mean to me and the world.