Here we ago again...

I did not grow up in a Nudist Colony. I am not a "former hippie". I think... well, fuck. I think I am just fucking tired of people stuffing their values down my throat, demanding I accept them, and worse, demanding I accept the labels or assumptions they have of me, when THEY DO NOT EVEN KNOW ME.

I think you should be congratulated. The Gulch has gone from a group of rational thinkers to a parrot society of the radical far right.

I am NOT interested in arguing points that shouldn't need arguing, I am even less interested (and am in fact QUITE tired) of having to defend myself, my actions, or my words to a group that would rather spread rhetoric than remain objective.

I'm even more than finished with those who answer only to superimpose their thoughts or their values on me, as if they know what's in my mind or in my head. What's being offered - isn't value for value anymore, it's rhetoric for the sake of self-aggrandizement and argument, and, well...

Ever read the book Atlas Shrugged? Even Dagny eventually shrugged. And... so do I.

Listen. Being transgender is a fact of reality. We believe in "liberty and justice for all". That includes transgender people. Please get a bit of schooling on what is real and isn't before you just go on a rant. There are a lot of lies out there. Many are being played.

Most Americans, did not grow up in nudist colonies.Most Americans are not former hippies. Most American believe that when a naked man exposes himself to a young girl (that is not his own child) that he should be arrested and given a mental examination.

You say that it doesn't bother you to have a strange male ogle your nude body...okay. How about your 13 year old daughter or granddaughter? How about if that granddaughter had all of her friends start calling her a prude and insulting her modesty, just because she won't undress in front of some mentally unstable person can't decide what sex he or she is (when all they have to do is look between their own legs). By the way, anybody who lacks the mental capacity to recognize their own sex should be a serious concern to any sane person, for any number of reasons.

This has gone beyond having a "special" room for the undecided...the law of the land is a free-for-all, but only for the freaks because the normal people KNOW which bathroom to use.

I will not accept this new "standard" because for one person to gain at the cost of another's comfort is not a trade...it's theft. An objectivist would understand that concept.

Why? Sorry... but, well... read what I posted above.

I've had it happen, then again, perhaps I don't lead as sheltered a life as some. I camp out a lot, do a lot of distance hikes and other outdoors events, so the thought of someone seeing me in my birthday suit, because it has happened so often, whether it's bathing in a lake or creek, "whizzing" behind a tree, or whatever... is a non-starter for me.

Actually - being a child of the 60's, we used to skinny dip a lot. So most current peoples hang-ups about the human body aren't mine. Doesn't mean I wouldn't kick some pervo freak in the privates if he were being offensive, but I am NOT of the squeamish, neo-victorian era Americanist viewpoint shared by some on this list.

Actually... thinking about it... (Aw hell, you done went and lit my fuse...)

I just love how people on this list somehow recently make blatant assumptions about posters based on their own personal experiences (or lack thereof). OK, that was parody - that little recent change in the list REALLY pisses me off. It didn't happen when this list was new, yet somehow people now, here, think that they have free reign to make assumptions and generalizations that are in their own mind... about everyone else here. DON'T F#(&ING DO IT.

Dig? I HAVE had it happen, guys looking at my nekkid bod, and it wasn't a big deal to me. I may be somewhat of a fat tub and pasty ugly with thunder thighs (or maybe I'm not, but you could picture that, right?) but even were that the case I have no hangups about my body, or that of anyone else's. That (you can gasp in horror now) even includes transpeople who have enough on their plate to worry about what I think about them (when, actually - I __DON'T_*). Yes... I have seen pre-op transwomen at my gym. Do I care? No. Do I think them pervos? No. Are they total freaks that deserved to be flayed? No. Because... ya know what? What (Goddess Forbid) that were ME in that skin dealing with THAT load of crap?

Someone wants to judge - I have NO use for them, because that type of judgment (sorry, kiddos) - is absolutely, positively NON-OBJECTIVIST. Diggit? I don't buy into other's "feelings" or "assumptions" as fact.

If that gets you bent out of shape... then look in a mirror. If not - then good for you - maybe we CAN continue a discourse. Either way - have a good whatever it is for you.

Two sides to this issue: first, real transgenders are a very small part of the population, often a single digit number among hundreds of students,so distinct separate facilities don't meet the cost/benefit ratio (particularly when some schools currently have NO transgender students); non-transgender students have a right to privacy, even if measures are undertaken to accommodate transgenders.

Solutions to these issues can be difficult. For schools with a limited budget, portable toilets for the use of gender-conflicted students is one solution, but usually these kids are trying hard not to be noticed. For planned facilities, or school buildings under construction, a single person all-gender bathroom can be included. If the Feds want it, they pay for it (this will be tested in court, when judges decide if the Fed position is a stretch of Title IX).

Locker rooms are a more difficult matter. Mixed gender close proximity nudity is a non-starter. Privacy screens are one solution, but not sufficient for most parents. Again, public schools should insist on additional Federal dollars for any solution.

It's becoming clear that the states have allowed themselves to be bribed into disregarding the 10th amendment. State governments should be looking for ways to wean themselves off of Federal monies, to prevent this kind of Federal blackmail.

While Texans joke about seceding from the union, directives like this one is starting to make many of them think it may become a serious option. The energy states have the capability to hold the rest of the union hostage, if they act together.

People have to stop falling for these diversions that generate emotional involvement in non-issues while real evil is being committed against us. While it is a coarsening of society to tear down bathroom privacy among the sexes, on real harm is likely. Transgender people have gone to great effort and expense to change their sex and are unlikely to threaten persons of the biological sex they aspire to. Perverts present a threat that has nothing to do with this issue and no one has ever been harmed by seeing the genitalia of anyone.
While we are getting caught up in this type of distraction, the magician is removing yet another cornerstone of liberty by some executive action or regulation that we aren't aware of yet and it will be too late to do anything about it when we notice.

This marxist/socialist/communist president showed his true intentions when the bean counting was done and he told us -publicly, " we are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America." His every action and declaration since then has been to fulfill that promise. This is only the latest in his "bucket list", there is more to come. In the waning months of his power, consider what he, along with his wife(who is by far the worst of the two) covets most - total control. To that end, we will see them prod us with dictates designed to deliver what they most crave - martial law, legal suspension of rights of citizens. This crew has been prodding us, easily at first and now with more force as his time runs short, to a violent response, which hands him the legitimate reasons he needs to declare. To our credit, we have not given him the tools. It is not January yet, this enemy of America is far from done.

Thanks you, sir. I appreciate your consideration of viewpoints.

Well, while private business has that option, they still try to force the issue through regulation. The bulk of the issues are schools and public venues such as pools and such. I have not seen much on the private gyms or any issues with them...yet...but I am sure they will not go un-harassed.

What's the problem? Let private businesses set any restroom policies they please, and allow the free market to sort out the issue.

Oh yes, and get rid of the public schools.

You are right

That is very true, and is one of the key points I see people feeling: Where does it stop, and what about my privacy. Freedom does not imply absolute freedom to do anything with no responsibility. In forcing women and men to accomadate others who feel difeerent, the government destroys one freedom to secure another. That is an unfair trade, and is illustrative of all the "social changes" they have enacted. You cannot legislate others moral framework or norms, you have to either persuade them it is right, or find another accommodation.

The problem is more about access for the unintended not the GBLT. It is a truly scary situation for a women traveling and needing to stop at a rest area in a remote area
any creep can freely walk in on a victim .This will only get worse as the perverts pretend to be what ever with no consequences for being in an inappropriate place.

Thanks Nick for that example.

It's just Obama living out more liberal fantasies. Leaving another mess of nonsense that will take years to sort out in the courts.

I think you miss the point. I do not believe AR would endorse the government: a: using its power to legislate social behavior to it's limited taste. and b: Using it's power to tax to take money and then require specific actions to get it back. In addition, I think she would also say they shouldnot be taxing and paying for schools across the country, it is a local responsibility. Is it bigoted to not let people pee on your doorstep? What if a group decides that their lives are unfulfilled until they have done so one every house in their town, and the town requires everyone to open their gates to allow it, or have their utilities cut? Bigoted is being prejudiced against a norm that has been established and exists and also ignores the fact you have the personal freedom to NOT have to subject yourself to something you find offensive, or be forced to. The correct answer to this silliness was to add a gender neutral bathroom/locker room to all facilities, but why should the majority have to pay to create such infrastructure to accommodate a small minority. Imposition of someones social morals on the majority from an outside source and using blackmail is certainly immoral and much worse that a persons personal offense at being forced to violate their own privacy standards, when they are built around an established norm.

Exactly so! Well said.

Exactly. Pandering at a professional level, hitherto unseen.

Indeed. The next logical step (per the Empire) is to force the other students to ask the little boy/girl out, or face stiff fines and suspension, for violating his/her civil rights. Classic "punish them all for the one" theory of control.

term, the point is, it is another encroachment on individual rights and freedom. It is an accepted std that women go in bathrooms, and associate with women, the govt does not have the authority or the right to change the structure to appease some other niche group who demand it. If the niche group has such concerns, then they should be allowed to pay and provide their own room they can play in. This is as applicable to any fundamental right (for instance, if a group of people decided that staring in windows of houses was their own form of freedom, does that mean government has the right to turn off the electricity until all houses remove drapes and blinds, just to appease their needs?). Even if you do not care about the specific issue, the fat that the government chooses to impose it's own corrupt pandering solution to it, is worth concern and push back.

One would have to think if this was indeed true, that there would be a little more sensational media going on. I can't see Uber allowing any of it's associated employees raping women enmass, it just seems bad for business... It does bring up the issue of a social structure at odds with the one they are injected into, making such an injection not only immoral, but unsupportable. If facts can be obtained, then that makes good ammo for use on the politicians who have supported it, especially if they are "women's rights" supporters (or claim to be).

That is the examples I have heard. It comes down to a: allowing freedom is OK, but it goes both ways. b: If concern for the odd 1% is so great, make a 3rd bathroom available with a "?" on it, and then "Use at your own risk".
End of issue.

And with tax money, their only tool for abuse....

So...how long before an armed white woman is thrown to the ground and viciously attacked by an unarmed teenage Muslim boy, shoots and kills him and is immediately vilified by the government for an apparent "hate crime"? Maybe Obama would even state "If I had an adopted Syrian refugee son"...