And they have nothing to do with his claimed mysticism proved by science. They are a natural, statistical, observed phenomenon, difficult to predict with precision because of the complexity and instabilities of large ocean systems and their interaction with weather. An interesting discussion and description of rogue waves is in the classic Waves and Beaches, 2nd ed 1980 by Willard Bascom.

It's also a certain geometric ratio that is an irrational number. A lot has been written about the mathematical properties. The problem isn't the mathematics, it's the mystical attribution of physical significance, often espoused as esthetics and its history which is plain false mythology.

You wrote "Mysticism is often science we do not understand rendered down to something excusable." Observed procedures that seem to work even though no one understands why are not mysticism.

When a procedure isn't understood even though there are rational reasons for thinking there is something to it, there are typically also quacks involved, which gives it a bad reputation and muddies the waters for just what it is that actually seems to work.

Acupuncture is an example, and still has its quacks along with the lack of understanding. It seems that covering it with insurance became politically mandated. My own experience through someone close was that it didn't work, and the practitioner, who was paid by insurance and working in a reputable professional community, didn't know what she was doing, and in addition gave "explanations" in terms of what she claimed was electromagnetic theories of physics which were absolute gibberish. It was laughable and no better than a fortune teller. Whatever anyone in that field thinks works even without theoretical explanation, the insurance companies are being bilked in a hoax.

I've seen a show that was devoted to
Rogue waves and the devastating effects on
Huge ships and oil platforms.
They are fairly frequent around the
Cape Horn due to currents and winds.
They also can come right out of the blue
Caused by a type of build up of smaller waves.

Thank you, I knew I had heard that, but I am not too familiar with the Fibonacci sequence other than from the movie they were used in...

Rogue waves is particularly interesting, in that many maritime disasters never had a good explanation, and reports of them were often discounted. Yet sattelite mapping now reports they are not only regular, but can be found in most oceans and certain routes around Africa and South America have been changed to specifically avoid the areas most prone to them.

Ok, except that Graham Hancock, right or wrong, is not a professor at a school where such silly requirements exist. At least as much as I am aware of.

The golden ratio or mean is 1.618034... which is the limit of the ratios of successive terms of the Fibonacci sequence 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,... the ratios being alternatingly smaller and larger than the golden ratio.

There are many cave sites that have been discovered, and probably a lot more waiting. The ones in France come to mind, and a few in the Pacific islands.

Indeed, some people get excited when you use the term. I am leaning towards the Graham Hancock term of ancient, technologically advanced civilization, which could encompass several variations from a homegrown, to an outwrld one. With no concrete evidence beyond a boatload of ancient cities and monuments that no one can really give a good explanation for (and there are some who will show how things like that could be done using primitive tools, I just have a hard time imagining people dropping things like food growing to make giant monuments), there is a whole open room for discussion.

I did not say that, I said it is often science that is not understandable in the current framework. I would say that acupuncture is such an item, it was never covered by any health plans and is now a prescribe-able treatment. Many considered it mysticism just 20 years ago.

ewv, please do not get so excited. While you may not subscribe to the idea being expressed here, that does not mean they are invalid. I listened to Graham Hancock's book and he makes a persuasive case for some kind of relational effect for the use of the numbers Pi and Phi. They do exist as a relational number item that is found to be a standard in calculations of circles, diameters, radiaii. There are some relations he espouses about the Pyramid, it's measurements, the angles of the channels in the Pyramid. You can call it mysticism, but the relations to the various items, and precession, seem valid. There may be other explanations and truths, but it does seem there are a lot of coincidences here, especially for number relationships that work for something that was "discovered" 2500 years after they were supposedly built. It seems obvious you and Dobrien are on opposite sides of the point, so lets leave it at that, please. Thank you.

Some examples of Myths or so called mystical beliefs rediscovered and proven by science.
Rogue waves---oceanography
City of Troy---archeology
Chronomedicine-- biology
Moon phases and its effects on humans
The great flood 12500 years ago
Civilized man cultivating and cooperating thought to go back to
6000 years ago now doubled to over 12000.
Antarctica rediscovered.

This is a forum for Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason, not promoting mysticism in any form, including your number mysticism. Your posts are incoherent, snide sarcasm, and non-responsive. They have nothing to do with the topic of the thread on a claimed scientific discovery of multiple influences on development of farming in early civilizations.

There is no significance in reality to your claim of "incredible coincident" based on your arithmetic rationalizations, and your posts provide no coherent explanation of what you are talking about. Selected numerical coincidences do not represent causality and your strings of numbers are not an explanation of anything. No further "backing up" is required. If you want to say something it is up to you to coherently state it, and without your personal insults.

The "golden mean" as an intrinsic characteristic is myth. Your statement that "1.618034 or phi and the decimal .618034 are also ratios that are represented in our bodies" is nonsense. Numbers are abstractions for measurement, not metaphysical features in our bodies. The "golden mean" in particular is an irrational number with open-ended decimal places that do not end. Neither that abstraction of infinity nor the numerical abstraction of your six-place decimal approximation are "represented in our bodies".

Maybe I don't are you the decision maker of my time or this forum ?oh by the way twice you made a claim and I asked you to back up your statement and you choose to not

Your snide sarcasm evading discussion does not belong here. You are promoting number mysticism.

Nit picker. Thanks I thought time and distance were the same , next time I set up an appointment I won't say see you at 3.6 miles.

360 degrees is the angle around the full circumference, not the circumference, which is a distance. Distance and time are two different concepts. Speed is a third concept that relates them as the distance per unit time.

You find "coincidences" in numbers and fallaciously conclude causal connections arithmetic. One of the fallacies you promoted is the mythology of the golden mean. It's number mysticism.

Yet another theory in this world of publish or perish. Yawn.

Oh now I am convinced excellent narrative.
Good day!

Distance and time certainly are related as well as 360 degrees is the earths full circumference .
I am not trying to prove anything.
What don't you like ' that you can't prove your "selected numbers manipulation".

dark hair, dark eyes probably white skin, sounds like the arabs to me and since they split 50,000 years ago that means the infighting has been going on much longer than history has recorded

You just illustrated it yourself.

You used unrelated measurements and arbitrarily combined them. The arithmetic doesn't prove anything to make them related.

Genius inventors is just a PC way of saying Ancient Aliens!