interesting that it is California residents that are in the fore front of this situation. maybe that will have an effect on the people who live where the illegals are coming into the country and they the people in the area will stop the buses from leaving the facilities where they are located to begin with. then maybe our fellow citizens who have been working for the government will join us in stopping the movement of the illegals beyond the border. THAT will tell those rectal brains in Washington what is going to happen.

My mother-in-law is from France. She loves America and is somewhat ashamed of France. She jumped through all the hoops to become a citizen here. She does not agree, in any way, with these new methods of immigration. It's interesting to hear her chime in on these matters - refreshing.

AJ, I had a nightmare about 3 years ago which
scared me.

I dreamed that I was returning home from an errand
and stopped at the corner store to buy milk. as I came
out of the store with the moo, I noticed a guy on
the corner with a sign. the sign read "open room
at 1000 fuzzy dog lane" (it was my real address).
I went over to him and asked what it meant. his
reply was that our guest bedroom was being let
out for free, since it was currently empty.

we have property rights and must defend them. -- j

I have the same gut feeling: martial law is
on his menu. This P...k wants a total take-over.
GOD help America.

Anywhere where this is done we must be very careful. Obama is looking to stay in office forever, and the only way he can is if there is a state of emergency that he can use to suspend elections.

He is trying to get us to riot so that he can declare martial law and keep it going for a couple of years, spin it so he is the only one that can save us. An change in leadership would be just to hard.... and he will have become our Hugo Chavez.

I love what these people have done. It both excites me and scares me. So long as we can keep it peaceful it will be great.

I agree. This, coupled with the stockpiling of arms and ammunition by non-military units leads one to believe that martial law is in the offing. If this situation doesn't provoke it, there will be others down the line. He's got two years to declare himself dictator or some more soothing name.

Agree on many points. I would point out that many also pay taxes. If they are not squatters they pay rent at some point and almost all rent has as a portion property/school tax. Anybody who makes a purchase in most states pays sales tax. There are excise taxes on gas and all truck delivered goods that can't be avoided.

Unfortunately many come here to join the Americans on the dole. While I agree that system needs to go, it's going to take some time. Allowing non-citizens on the dole is step we can take back now.

Would agree if they didn't come here to live off the taxpayer's dime. Eliminate the welfare magnet and then welcome those who want freedom.

The proles are rising up, and the elites don't like it.

No problem, I thought that likely what it was. I should have been more clear. Thanks for clearing it up. People do not have a right to stay here, or come here. They earn that privilege through the legal process we have in place. Many of us were lucky enough to be born into that privilege, but in my mind its still a privilege.

Edit: and its Veterans like you that provided that privilege to people like me that never served in the military. We will only maintain it so long as we have the ability to defend it both home and abroad. So thank you.

I was reading fast and didn't get the connection.
thanks

If you received it by the law, you earned it. Likely because you were born here. I was referring specifically to what this article is about, immigration. They have a legal process to earning citizenship for those that do not have it. They must go through that process. If you were born in the US you went through that process.

If we do not like people running over the boarder to give birth to baby to try to keep them here then the legal process by which the privilege of citizen ship is gained needs to be changed. Otherwise we should follow and live with the process until we change the law.

I agree with what you say here. Initially to me it sounded like you were requiring state service to prove your citizenship worthy (like Heinlein's Starship Troopers). In other words being born in a country by parents who are citizens isn't enough.

A misunderstanding.

One has to wonder why they are not pulling the race card. Its usually one of the first things the liberals pull.

You look at the Obama and Polosi speeches of the last week and it sheds some light. This is really about overturning the supreme courts judgement that Obama overstepped his bounds with executive orders. They are attepting to get the people so wrapped up in immigration that when congress cannot provide a solution Obama can be the savior through executive order, thus giving him the ability to ignore the supreme court as its the will of the people that he execute executive order to solve this.

If we see the race card played it will be timed to assist with the larger picture of pulling more power to the white house by beating a Supreme Court Decision that should have reduced the presidents power.

Obama is evil in every sense of the word, but he is a dam brilliant kind of evil, and this positioning shows just how much so.

what AJA said.
How did I "earn" my American citizenship?

AJAshinoff,

Please see my eariler reply. I was refering to immigration only in my post. I was making no comment about state oriented service. The privilage is gained by going through the legal process to get into this country, whatever that process is. It should be given away through amnesty or any other nonsense. It is earned by following the immigration process we have in place. If that process is failing it needs to be legally changed before we change our policies around it.

AJAshinoff,

I was referring to those who are coming to this country. I am surprised that you would consider immigration having a legal process around it occurring and that process being followed hogwash.

We have a legal process for immigration it should either be followed, or the laws changed and then those changes followed.

Perhaps you thought I was bring it up about something else?

In a thread this long and complicated, I'm not sure if you're directing this to me, but, as usual, I'll put my toe in the pond.

The entire "rights" discussion is long, difficult, and filled with dissension. I would direct you to O.A.'s original post at http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/94...

I don't agree that humans are immoral animals; cats are immoral animals. Humans, due to their powers of reasoning, are different. They can choose to act immorally, or not.

A system of laws does not keep people from doing immoral things - those who are going to, will; those who are not going to, will not. A law forbidding murder is not what keeps me from murdering the neighbor who climbs into his hot tub every night and 10 and disturbs my attempts to get to sleep. It is my own moral code that keeps me from murdering him [tempting though it is!].
Conversely, the people who have committed the many public shootings through recent history are not deterred by the laws against murder.

In all the places you list where people act immorally, I would argue that they do have a system of laws in place - one usually missing the idea of non-initiation of force, but a system. "We're the East Side Sisters. This is our territory. We protect it and each other. If there's a group of the 33rd Street Rats that comes too close to our territory, we'll show 'em who's boss and send 'em home bleeding."
Since most modern Americans don't understand what laws are, what rights are, what morality is - in short, have no education, they will probably act in the same ways as the ESS.

The people who will survive will have a reason to do so, and the foresight to look ahead, prepare and practice the needful skills. They will not randomly attack other groups of people who have done them no harm, in part because it would diminish their own strength. They will make agreements with other like-minded groups if they can find them, and try to work their way back to a future that's better than their present.

Government, with its laws, will probably be less than no help - more like a hindrance. Anyone who is doing an acceptable job of surviving will be a target.

You pay the butcher's bill you run up and that you can afford, of course.