Why do you think the school aren't teaching this? THE GOVERNMENT RUNS THEM. And parents don't get involved enough and the parents don't know what A=A is either OR that there are dots to be connected. The little kids stand and repeat the Pledge every morning and have NO idea what the hell it even means...when they do get a lesson about it is it's all about how "fair" our government makes everything for EVERYone. The are not taught about individual freedoms and capitalism or what a republic is. And the Constitution? What's that? I wonder if the second amendment is even mentioned EVER in a public school anymore let alone explained why it is so important to a freedom. If you want your kids taught the truth and what's important, home school. And skip over the week long "recycle" to save us all crap.

I have people agree with my spouts regularly...I'm not sure that counts really. It does in the way that it's hopefully planting a seed BUT the point I was really trying to make is I very rarely have anyone ask questions that further the conversation. The conversations that need to be had are vast and historic...we're under an umbrella of corruptions that cross over many areas. I had someone call me the other day asking what I thought about Syria because she has a son in law in the middle east working right now and she's worried about him....which just hammers home my feeling (oh whoa whoa whoa whoa) that people only take notice when it slaps them in the face...and then they only pay attention to that ONE area of interest and won't look at the big puzzle picture looming ahead. Swallowing this in small doses is a start, but it won't do in the long run if they don't expand.

this is a difficult but rewarding path engineer.

If our schools are not teaching facts and connecting the dots and are politicians and media aren't either, how are they to understand A=A. How are they to understand connecting the dots?

One is my son who has an MBA and he told me that he was taught that food stamps put money into the economy. We went around on that for awhile but I finally convinced him using the mathematical facts. Also, I had several people discuss the fact that no government employee pays real taxes after a letter to the editor was published.
I take walks around my neighborhood and there are a couple of people that have discussed many of these points and agreed with the arguments.

The problem is that there is a significant portion of the population that would / do pretend there are no dots or connections. They live in the world of A is Z instead of being willing to admit the fact that A is A. We get pushed into philosophy because we first need to teach / show people the importance of recognizing that A is A once they can and are willing to do that on their own then their philosophical foundation is repaired and they will start to see things are they are instead of seeing things how they would like them to be. Once they have accomplished this then they will not need to be convinced that the truth is true as they will be able to see that themselves.

That might be considered preaching to the choir though. They're up to speed so to speak... what I wanted to know is what lay person have you gotten to listen?....I'll give you 2 extra points if they asked questions with interest.

When Hank was in court he gave a "if you wish to seize my property then call it what it is, and bring guns" speech. Was that NOT publicly challenging what was wrong?

I talked to my US Congressman. His aids understood what I was saying and agreed. He Didn't.

Who have you talked to that listened? I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I won't stop trying to talk to people and to get them to listen, BUT so far I can't find anyone who acts more than superficially interested...temporarily. Rozar has a great post right now with some good conversation starters that I will try. Sorry if my over whelming frustration of dealing with the brain washed shows. :(
You have good points about WHY don't those who have a spot at the podium don't spell out the obvious and what needs to be done...probably vote related...which goes right back to the root of the problem. Corruption.

All anyone can do is make their voices heard and hope that others will see sense in their words and seek to change.

Yes. That was my problem too. These characters were smart people, but they're completely stymied when it comes to politics. It was hard to believe they could get as far as they did without being able to deal with people they didn't agree with.

hey engineer I feel your pain on that one. The head of the food stamp program and farm subsidies was from my home town. babysat his kids. Head shake

First, how do you know they don't want to listen. Some don't but I am sure there are many that do.

As I have just posted to other comments, people need to explain the fundamentals of the problems with math, science and connecting all the dots.

I have commented today on Food Stamps with many of the dots that those who say the put money into the economy have ignored. How many of those with the bully pulpit have done this?

Math, science and connecting all the dots for people can explain to them many things. Such as:

Why Stimulus will not work.
How the Government has stolen half of the Social Security trust fund.
The fact that no government employee pays REAL taxes.
How to raise 1 trillion in IRS TAX revenue without hurting the economy.
How the political alchemists are continually trying to do things that are impossible such as Perpetual Motion and turning lead into gold.

I have not heard anyone explain these things, the best I have heard is "I HAVE A PLAN!"

As I have said elsewhere philosophy is in the eye of the beholder. Math, science and connecting all the dots can explain many of our problems.

As to those that have the bully pulpit, I have tried show them how connect the dots with facts and have yet to see any of them even consider doing it. One specific that comes to mind is the food stamp question.

The question is should they argue philosophy at all. Most of our problems are coming down to the lack of connecting the fundamental dots! How do you eat an elephant - one bite at a time. That is connecting two simple dots, but what about the dot that mentions the pride of Lyons coming to reclaim their prize. It is the dots that no one seems to connect that are causing the problems. Philosophy is in the eye of the beholder, math and science can put a definite description on the problem. Look at my comment on Food Stamps in these discussions.

There are many more topics that can be discussed based on math, science, and connecting all the dots to show the facts of what is happening.

Did you already tell me once to see the LtCol's dissertation? First I've heard of it.

You can't MAKE people listen OR understand what they don't want to listen to. What ideas do you have?

I think that you may have accidentally skipped over the 100+ pages of John Galt's speach in Atlas Shrugged

Asking the questions are important. More and more are pulling their children from public education every year. I grew up in the 70s. My parents were teachers. Who home schooled? nobody! now close to 5% of US children are homeschooled and that number grows every year.

There is no soundbite alive that can get to the heart of philosophy. But here were three CEOs speaking to the killing regulations and laws. If you remember AS neither Dagny or Hank got it it til late in the game. The three who "got it" and their professor, it is an elite group. Most do not nor will ever probably. Rand says you start from where you are. Sam Adams says it only takes a small, pissed off minority to change the world. Luckily there are some who have a bully pulpit in the media. One that comes to mind is Judge Napolitano. In every op ed he writes, whenever he beginsan argument, he starts from the philosophy that is at the root of the Constitution. Every time.

lets keep in mind that the "people" were on HR's side during the trial and the more he spoke the more they liked what he had to say. It also happens during Dagney's radio confession. But, lets look closely at the character of the strikers. None of them were converts, all of them were already practicing objectivism then John Galt gave them the words to identify what they were doing. Throughout the book Dagny and Hank spend plenty of time leading the horses to water. By and large most of them refuse to drink at all. With of course the notable exception of Tony. The thing is that leading the horses to water was not their job. Hank made steel, and Reardon metal, and mined iron ore and copper and owned a toll manufacturing business and was doing engineering. While Dagney was a builder and runner of railroads. They were already doing the best part they could to save the world by doing the things they were already very good at. We should not expect them to also argue philosophy with fools. In the meantime, I often find myself wondering if the straw the broke the camles back was Hanks check to "Friends of Global Progress"?

Engineer J, welcome to the Gulch. We have been building it since 1957. Look under the Culture category. Over 40 million copies of books by and about Ayn Rand are out there. The Big Five take the most numbers, but in all perhaps 50 different titles are available. See also "Ayn Rand's Influence Among Young People." Two different graphic novels are out there, one a straight biography in the "Women of Power" series and the other is "Anthem." Anthem is a routine assignment in middle school and high school along with 1984, Brave New World, Lord of the Flies, and Call of the Wild. You will not get everyone to agree to 100% of your own opinions, but they will -have- opinions.

It is too easy to see the puffball of mass media or to get discouraged by the people around you. But they do not matter. As Francisco said about James, "People like him just clutter up the world." They make the laws because we let them. Letter to the editor, maybe... vote in a primary maybe... run for office (I have; and won)... but never really say it all, all at once, once and for all.

John Galt's Speech does that. The rest of Objectivism explains the details. 40 million copies worth...

And in addition, we have lifelong comrades in the Foundation for Economic Education, and the Mises Institute and the Cato Institute. You must know the TV series "The West Wing." We own all eight seasons. It is misunderstood among "conservatives." I won't defend it here and now, but, if you watch it enough, you will see REASON Magazine in the literature rack on the set.

Elections? Elections are a scam.Voting was always problematic in Chicago and Texas. But electronic voting is like the old joke about the accountant who got hired because when asked "how much is two plus two" she answered "how much would you like it to be." Forget elections.
Forget trying to convince people. The people who want to know, already do. You are just among the most recent. Welcome.

See if you can figure out where my syntax went wrong.

The premise of' no work, no eat' is the greatest teacher of A=A. Productive work =Sustenance. It's Malthus in a mild form. Maybe we need it to weed out that part of the population which believes it has an entitlement to survive simply because they exist. Again, see LtCol Dubois' schoolroom dissertation in Starship Troopers.