It could continue in gradual deterioration or something could trigger something more dramatic. But that is on average. Individuals are hit harder depending on their circumstances, as you know from your own experience.

The swamp is just spending and spending. The bubble will burst for sure, but no one seems to know just HOW or WHEN it will burst

We have to read about the earlier phases because we weren't there! But what you observed for yourself since the 60s is fact, not just an impression. And not only is it an unsustainable, unstable bubble, they are progressively making it worse.

I think u are right actually. For did whatever he wanted. I wasn’t really aware of issues like these before the 60’s. I was just commenting on the changes I noted in the last 50 years or so. It’s unsettling as this bubble is going to burst

That started long before the 1960s. It is a consequence of Pragmatism and its Progressive politics. There are no principles on principle. Anything is regarded as an acceptable "tool" for whatever they think will "work". When it doesn't, they do it over again in another form.

Knowledge absolutely can and does reside in stories - in histories. That is how we pass along what we have learned to others. Society would not progress were it not able to build on the learning of prior generations. Case in point: the American Indians. They relied on verbal history to pass along their lifestyle and traditions, but left almost no written history and certainly didn't advance scientifically. Contrast that with Europe, where even before the advent of the printing press books were treasured items and paper was one of the preeminent inventions precisely because it allowed for the documentation and promulgation of thought! How many inventions and inventors have gone by the wayside simply because their thoughts were never documented and shared with others?

"Concepts and principles are not absorbed instantaneously."

You've never had an "A-ha!" moment in your life have you? Where things just "click" and the light bulb turns on? I feel sorry for you because its an immensely gratifying sensation. My son can look at advanced mathematical principles and instantly grasp how they are useful. He can tell when to use matrix multiplication and when to use a Fourier transform in his programming while I stand behind him in awe. Just the other day he looked up a paper on different types of 3D rendering algorithms and in under five minutes (just long enough to skim through the paper) had told me in which situations each one was best. He has a talent for it. I've seen others who are so mechanically inclined that they can tell you what is wrong with an engine (and how to fix it) simply by listening to it despite having no previous experience with that kind of vehicle.

I would actually argue that concepts and principles certainly may be understood instantaneously provided the individual has the mental acuity and proclivity to the topic. I would argue (contrary to your assertion) that learning is on a scale for everyone and further that there is a scale for every different kind of topic which is individual to that person (and its called intelligence). Any kind of arbitrary assertion that one categorically may not learn and absorb knowledge as fast as their neurons will fire originates from the ivory tower intellectualist who is afraid of true genius - not reality.

"Knowledge does not come by revelation after experiencing a disaster..."

Then you are missing out on all kinds of learning opportunities. That's all I can say. I know many people who specifically credit a disaster or crisis with changing their lives for the better. There are others who use them as excuses to justify doing exactly the same things they have always done. What do we call this? Ah, yes: the victimhood mentality. Those who are self-aware and independent take ownership of the situation and their response to it - no matter what it may be.

"if anyone still needs a motive to begin to rethink his mistaken beliefs, let alone go in the right direction, a collapse will not help him."

You've never really helped anyone work through a real tragedy have you, like the unexpected loss of a job, a severe illness, death of a relative, etc.? You stand to the side. Motive is an evaluation of a proposed path and the value which following that path brings to one's life. Motive is absolutely key to changing one's ways. I have worked with people (and been one of those at times) and often a time of tragedy is what spurs one to re-evaluate one's premises and motives. They finally realize because something went wrong that they need to change and look at something from a different perspective. No, it isn't the ideal way, but it is by far the most common way.

You keep trying to look at thing as if everything is cerebral and people are idiots to not see the truth. Here's a little point of observation: in general, people have to have the truth presented to them in a time in which they are open to accept it (motive) before they will seriously consider it simply because of inertia. People are creatures of habit not only in action but in thought. It takes something out of the ordinary to overcome that inertia and (perhaps) set the ship on a new course. And the greater the inertia the greater the magnitude of event needed to overcome it.

That is why our nation is where it is: inertia. Progressivism didn't become the norm overnight - displacing the traditional liberalism that pervaded this nation only a century before. Progressive idealists have been working for more than a century to influence society and through what tactics: the media and education institutions. Why these in particular? To push their stories and their ideas.

Why did Hitler write "Mein Kampf" or Karl Marx "The Communist Manifesto" or Saul Alinsky "Rules for Radicals"? Why did Ayn Rand write "The Fountainhead" or "Atlas Shrugged" or Stephen R. Covey "Seven Habits of Highly Effective People"? What about the Bible, the Torah, and the Qu'ran or any number of other books?

Why? To push their stories and their ideas.

DeBlasio like so many politicians and professors has bought totally into Marx's Manifesto "...Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes..."

The really frightening part is that enough New Yorkers agree with him and will no doubt re-elect him.

My imagination can get pretty wild - but I gotcha.

This is just an impression rather than a statement of fact. Since the mid 60’s it seems that when problems come up in our country, the government is not constrained by the constitution anymore. All possible fixes are on the table now compared with 50 years ago- seemingly with no bounds

Actually, the same limits to government power still apply ... but we, for generations, have been too timid to enforce them.

Oh yes !! Now there are no limits to government powers like there were before

That only works before the collapse. I think we can see most of the elements already. Yet, because we (choose to) feel constrained by law we are loath to attend to them.

Slavery was once legal and slaves among the most law-abiding residents.

We were indoctrinated into an orderly "law and order" society and are loathe to recognize when the old paradigms have failed. The world you and I inhabit haschanged a great deal from the even the world we were born into.

Use your own imagination and read between the lions.

Which is.....?

Ideas being vaguely "out there" is not enough. Of course the basic ideas exist -- in books and in the minds of a small minority. Most people know nothing about it and are not in any practical way finding out, nor will they if present trends continue in education, the media and the professions.

Maybe is we can properly assess blame for the collapse this can be averted

I think that, if you lock yourself in a socialist bubble you tend to hear those words a lot.

But, coming from every community? That's a lie.

There is another use for paper shoes.

They only certainty with societal collapse is that it once again leaves that society fully open to domination by the powerful. The US would be very vulnerable not only to warlords within, but to warlords without.

Steps up on soapbox to shout message to mayor:

May all your wealth be confiscated and spread about for the greater good. After all, you didn't make that so why should you have it.

Message delivered. Steps down from soap box.

This is not a matter of discovering everything oneself versus learning from others. You are equivocating. Knowledge does not consist of "stories". That is the mentality of anti-intellectual activists on both the left and right emotionally manipulating people through "narratives", "anecdotes", and "stories".

Concepts and principles are not absorbed instantaneously. They take time to discover, validate, absorb and integrate, whether on one's own for some of it or learning previously discovered knowledge from others while sorting it out from the mixture and nonsense in circulation.

No one discovers the proper principles of morality and politics or how to properly understand history out of the collapse of a society -- even if it wakes them up and leads them to question anything they previously accepted. Knowledge does not come by revelation after experiencing a disaster; all that tells you, if anything and if you already have any decent standards at all, is that something went wrong, not what, why, or how, and not what is the proper course.

Figuring all that out while learning to reject the falsehoods takes time, effort, and objectivity. With all that is already happening in the country and in the world, if anyone still needs a motive to begin to rethink his mistaken beliefs, let alone go in the right direction, a collapse will not help him.

No, rational people do not need "death" and "sickness" to appreciate life. Anyone who can see that choices make a difference, and therefore appreciate what he has and wants without wallowing in sickness and death. Goals achieved and the possibilities show what is of value, not death. Life that is proper to man in the face of choice, not stagnation or death, gives rise to the need for a science of ethics. That fundamental alternative does not tell you what is proper for man or what values to seek and appreciate.

The problems that rational people have solved throughout history do not explain how they got the solutions. The time-consuming focus and creative effort of rational thinkers who know it is right to think and act independently causes the solutions, which do not spring out of the original problem, let alone the "pains, travails, and difficulties of others", just because they are there. Throughout most of history problems were not solved. Our focus is on achieving value and what that takes, not avoiding death by adopting an effortless revelation in response to fear and destruction.

And no, communism isn't "such a crime" just because it's practitioners committed mass murder. It is a moral crime at its root for its subjugation and sacrifice of the individual to the collective as a matter of principle, not a moral ideal that went bad in implementation. Understanding that and what is possible to man and how to achieve it takes more than looking at the graves in shock.

The notion we often see in the 'tea party' movement and here on this forum that the way to 'salvation' is to go on 'strike' and otherwise bring the country down in a collapse so people will 'wake up' and pursue the right course is terribly mistaken and profoundly anti-intellectual. It is not something to relish -- with or without backtracking and claiming it was only humor -- and it was not what Ayn Rand advocated or intended Atlas Shrugged to be as a political 'strategy'.

The dominant philosophy of a culture determines over time what it becomes and what politics it creates. Reforming the philosophy of the country to understand and adopt reason and individualism, in all their facets, is the only way to reform its politics. There are no shortcuts.

I agree with that for sure. So does that mean that when the socialist system crashes that the people will revolt (hopefully) as in AS?

The ideas based on reason and individualism are ALREADY out there, and have been for like 50 years now (since Ayn Rand). There is some very powerful emotional pull to collectivist ideas for pretty much all time that seems to overtake reason. The USA is an anomaly, and seems destined to disappear into the swamp.

Sadly, they're part of the CCR's attached to the title (another bit of bureaucratic deviousness IMO) so when you buy, you buy with the knowledge these leeches are there, and of your obligation to obey their dictum.

Yes, you are required to be a member, pay their dues, AND follow their rules. And they can hold you both civilly legally liable and in some cases criminally liable... and it holds up in court.

What amazes me are there are people who love them - because "they'll keep the property values up, and go after those rulebreakers"...

Personally - I have NO use for these lecherous leeching socialists... Whoever gave them the authority of Stalin, in whatever evil way possible, should be shot.