"some consulting work for a company that wants to do asteroid and lunar mining."
They don't by any chance have a business development director who used to work in Madison, WI in the cow semen industry... sorry, I mean bovine biotech instrumentation?

Let's assume, as others have, all of John Galt's "science fiction"-style inventions. That includes here the electrostatic motor and the refractor screen--that produces a false image.

Recall: Henry Rearden arrived at the Gulch with a very large portion of his work force in tow. Francisco d'Anconia had already formed a militia of the most loyal of them. These would come to the Gulch and do double duty as a construction gang and as a perimeter guard force. Hank Rearden would join the Committee of Safety (then consisting of Ragnar Danneskjold, Francisco d'Anconia, and John Galt as proxy for Midas Mulligan). A Committee of Safety is a group of the largest stakeholders in a society; they get together to work out law enforcement and defense, at their own expense, for the entire community, in recognition of the value of that defense.

In fact, when the authorities arrested John Galt, Ragnar immediately organized an Air and Land Militia to rescue him.

Ragnar also weakened the collectivists considerably through his privateering activities. Francisco might have done more than he did. As it was, he, too, decamped to the Gulch with his loyal workforce. He and Rearden, between then, could have fielded a division-strength army at the perimeter. And defense is always easier than offense, particularly when the attacker must scale a ring of mountains.

We'll probably never know whether the secrecy could have continued. As it was, John Galt fatally weakened the collectivist society by removing from it all who were keeping things going. With Dagny decamping (and joining the CoS herself), that kicked the props out from under the society. Though in all fairness, Robert Stadler sped that along without meaning to, by provoking Cuffy Meigs into that fatal lever pull that set off the Xylophone to smash flat an area at least 150 miles in radius around Dunkertown (a/k/a Harmony City), Iowa. And at the edge of that region: the Taggart Bridge.

Actually I'm surprised Francisco and Ragnar didn't prepare to blow up the bridge themselves. Except they would have wanted Dagny's consent for a thing like that.

"Space colonies are likely to be scattered and sparse so a centralized government with centralized planning will be of little value."
This reminds me of the ending of Artemis by Andy Weir. The founder of the moon colony says at the end of the book that societies go through stages of having the freedom of the frontier, then they get wealthy, then they get decadent and build and expensive gov't, and then they collapse, and the innovation happens where the new frontier is.

It made me think how the gritty moon colony Weir imagines for the setting is probably pretty close to what we're talking about here. It also reminds me of The Expanse, in which much of Earth's population subsists on gov't handouts, with families structured to have multiple parents per child to control population growth; while Mars produces all the new technology and wealth, and asteroid belt is mostly struggling miners speaking a creole language, and aching to get out from under the thumb of the major powers.

I have been doing some consulting work for a company that wants to do asteroid and lunar mining. the Moon, Mars and Asteroids all have pros and cons.
The moon has a fairly shallow gravity well which makes exporting ore and refined products easier. Its close proximity Earth simplifies logistic support. However, life support on the Moon poses considerable challenges due to the lack of an atmosphere and the very long day night time.

The Mars atmosphere is both a blessing and a curse. It provides some protection from solar and cosmic radiation (better than the Moon) and makes landings easier because aerodynamics can be employed in the process. However, planet wide dust storms impact the use of solar energy forcing the implementation of nuclear reactors for power at least for contingency purposes. What we know of the chemical composition of the Mars surface is encouraging but our sample size is small and very limited. We won't know much more without extensive surface exploration, The same is true of the Moon.

If you want to build large structures in space neither the Moon or Mars provide the best options. That's where the asteroid belt comes in. Asteroid mining has the lowest cost in terms of propulsion. This is why the concept is attractive to people with long term plans. Technologies such as space elevators or magnetic launchers could change the calculus on that but with current and envisioned capability asteroid mining is very attractive.

Here is where a space based Gulch could come in. Belt mining will be a very isolated process for a long time to come so a society set up along objectivist philosophy would be relatively free from interference.

Objectivism is well suited for space colonization for several reasons.

Space colonies are likely to be scattered and sparse so a centralized government with centralized planning will be of little value. Centralize government and planning are anathema to objectivism so it is a good match on that score.

Survival in a harsh environment will depend on innovation and discipline which means a society that favors meritocracy will have the best chance of success. As long as the fundamental principals of Objectivism such as the merits of ones ideas and a willingness to put them to work are maintained the success of the colony will be assured.

Solar system space will be a frontier for a long time to come and it will provide challenges that are best met without government interference. That sure sounds like what Ayn Rand had in mind to me.

When I was younger, and bulletproof, my business was keeping people and properties secure. My first line of active defense was to hang very small (bream) fishing hooks at various levels around the perimeter woods and at known intervals on any obvious trails/access points, as well as thumbtacked from 6# test inside window frames/ outbuildings access. It works very well.

A few years back I was looking for land in the foothills nearby. I have a group of like-minded families who all expressed interest in getting 20 or so acres, putting our houses on it, building a little school facility for our kids and being close enough where one parent could still go into town to work. We all like the idea of withdrawing from the system as much as practical. But, I soon realized that as soon as we started design and/or construction the local authorities would be taking note. You know where that leads. The news vultures would have a field day with Waco-like stories, "They keep their kids out of school..." etc. I decided not to invest the time and money necessary to make it. But, if we could build in secret...But, as is mentioned here "Google Earth". I know the local municipalities use it to look to see if somebody built a shed, put in a pool, etc. One random little drone would be all it took, as paranoid as that sounds...

Today, they are destorying historical statues, forbidding books, oppressing ideas as well as corrupting anything else they don’t like.

Very Orwellian. Anything that does not fit the agenda goes into the memory hole.

Yes. Trading with one another creates wealth.

Spot on! And exchanging ideas creates more ideas - 'ideas having sex' (per Matt Ridley).

Jan

"Martian ones which are in turn cheaper, and less complex, than Luna based ones."
How can this be? My naive thought is the moon would be much cheaper because it's so much closer.

"If we tried to isolate ourselves from any contact with the rest of the world, we would very soon be sub-par in technology."
Yes. Trading with one another creates wealth. Getting in the way of trade is the road to poverty.
I agree with this entire post. The best bet is some "free trade zone" or "zona franca" in a country willing to give tax/regulatory abatement in exchange for the jobs the zone would bring. It would be a constant battle to hold on to the tax abatement.

The zone needs to be remote enough to make people want to leave it alone but not so remote as to stifle trade. Just having a place with easy immigration rules would be a huge benefit. That's what Blueseed was trying to do. My hope is someone can do it on land: easy immigration plus tax abatement minus the cost of a ship.

They get the easy money from governments issuing IOUs which even the unborn will be forced to pay back one day.
Add in the ideology of kyienian economics and we get the indiviual rights busting centrally planned world we live in today.

I do not think that any physical congregation of objectivists can avoid detection; the world's tech is too high for that. We are surrounded by satellite surveillance and any mystery with a visible presence, heat signature, or grid connection (including internet and radio) will be detected - and probably in not too long a time.

If we tried to isolate ourselves from any contact with the rest of the world, we would very soon be sub-par in technology. No matter how many fine minds we attracted into our group, we still have to buy our chips from a factory. I think that the Earth's population supports one such factory for every billion people - because that is what you need to make the elaborate clean room environments profitable. Similarly, no isolated group of a few thousand people is going to equal the progress of 7+ billion minds, even if those minds are encumbered by bureaucracy and ours are not.

The only way an enclave of objectivists could exist in a non-objectivist society is if there were a legal loophole for us to nest within a larger element. This is the idea behind 'taking over' a state, which works in a democracy. If we were a tech and innovation 'cow' that a socialism found worthy to 'milk' then we might be granted a 'commune' or 'Reservation' status and allowed to have our non-communist ideology where it could produce useful items for the outside society and where we could be contained and not contaminate other people with our views.

If we had a super-weapon, we might be able to make a Duchy of Grand Fenwick - a scrappy pocket nation that was independent. We would have to have our finger always hovering over The Button, though. That does not sound pleasant. Since we have no such weapon, it is not very workable.

I think that the most realistic approach is the one we are on: Stay steadfast. Talk our philosophy to people who are interested and will listen, so that they at least know that there is an alternative. Make movies and write books with strong, competent heroes who show integrity. And if, IF the pendulum ever swings back to our favor, get as many people into Education as we can.

Jan

Where do they get enough money to expand? Banksters provide the facade and false legitimacy.

We must start with the creation of a motor that operates on atmospheric electricity...until that has been done, nothing else matters.

I grok what your saying.

The problem being that time machines are in use, and collectivists have taken over access to them. They're going through history seeding their philosophies into the minds of key influencers in their childhood years.

What about the accelerating bureaucracies of world taxers?

Close, but Mars would be the best bet for an off-Earth Gulch. Free-space colonies have much higher R&D and mass costs. We presently have the technology to build on Mars, all w eneed is reasonably priced transportation there (which is much cheaper than asteroid belt). Free-space platforms are orders of magnitude more complex and more mass-intensive than Martian ones which are in turn cheaper, and less complex, than Luna based ones.

I think we are a tipping point in terms of ignoring and accommodating irrationality. Trump , though his independence from political influences and his ego, was able to just put the liberals down and encourage citizens to cast off PC and vote for what made sense. BUT, that said, Trump is not an objectivist by any means. When he said "repeal and replace Obamacase", I knew it was going nowhere. It needs to be replaced, period. The replacing will be medicaid for everyone, I think.
By the next election, the democrats will have figured out how to manipulate the population a few percent and gain the upper hand. We will then see major shifts to the left.

I think the left misjudged the appeal of Trump partly because Trump supporters were afraid to publicly indicate their support. I could see a lot of people, when I came out for Trump, who would look around to make sure no one was listening- and say they agreed with him. That pressure will increase next election, and may keep good candidates from getting the cash they need to run against the democratic powerhouse. If it werent for Sanders' age, I think he might win next time. He nearly kicked Hillary out this time. I am pretty discouraged by it all and figure that the system has to collapse before it can rebuild- just as in AS

Build the Gulch as a floating artificial island, with overhead camouflage, located and anchored off regular shipping lanes (there are shoals at a relatively shallow depth). Supplies brought in via private submarines, mineral goods provided by seabed mining. Research should show locations less subject to powerful storms. Stick to low profile buildings to lessen the possibility of detection by ships. Between fish and seaweed farming, a lot of food supplies can eventually be produced locally.

One of the greatest challenges facing an objectivist society is dealing with irrational people. Ignoring them is dangerous and accommodating them is even worse.

Forty years ago it was still possible to essentially disappear by simply not telling the government what you were doing. If you stopped filing taxes they didn't know if you were dead or just moved to another zone, communicating across state and district lines made it difficult to determine the whereabouts of an individual. With the advent of computers and eventually electronic money and RFID requirements no person anywhere will be able to engage in anything that isn't observed. The requirement for a large force of overseers (which is cost prohibitive for slave owners) no longer exists when a computer program can be watching individuals at all times. The best way to live free is to live unobserved, not attainable in the current world. Using trade between individuals who are like minded is great until every object and every individual has an RFID. Then no matter where anything or anyone moves, trades or travels it can be monitored.
The collective has been sold the idea of slavery which means the enforcers are nearly everyone you meet (see something, say something) and any item produced by them that you need cannot be traded for without the states intervention, licensing, taxing or forbidding.
It might be with the capabilities of intrusion by computers the only place left will be deep in the Amazon jungle living in grass huts and eating monkeys, you then become a target that is not worth the effort. See THX 1138, he escaped when the cost of capture was not cost beneficial.

Actually, a wave can travel faster than the speed of light. This is the basis for materials that pass a wave through them faster than the electromagnetic energy that creates the wave. When re-combined on the other side of the material, it acts as a "cloaking" device at those wavelengths. This has been worked on in several countries for a decade.

If we are going hypothetical, then space along the asteroid belt would be the best place. You have the natural resources and freedom to extract needed raw materials for a thriving society. This would eliminate the satellite surveillance, invading armies, and bankers/collectivists trying to invade or steal the discoveries. Yes, it’s not viable, at this time, and it would be obvious when a space launch is detected that isn’t related to a government contract. Currently the only person who is even close to this is Elon Musk. It’s the “perfect” solution to land invasion, Financial invasion, spies, and Trojans. But then again this is all hypothetical in the “real world”