And Ford would start producing high-priced luxury cars to rival the Lexus.

It would be the end of inexpensive cars.

"If you had the same co-pay whether you bought your car at the Ford or the Lexis dealer, what do you suppose would happen?"
Surplus demand for the Lexus, i.e. waiting lists. More people would want luxury cars b/c they cost less, and fewer people would make them because they're not allowed to charge more.

If you had the same co-pay whether you bought your car at the Ford or the Lexis dealer, what do you suppose would happen?

"If u pay cash for hospital today, it’s hard to believe the bill would be similar to as hospital bill back then,"
It's remarkably close in my area. There are two hospitals that deliver babies, not counting the less expensive birthing centers that don't have full medial facilities. The hospitals have outrageous list prices, but there are three ways to get lower prices: 1) an insurance policy with negotiated rates, 2) talk to the administrator before service, 3) claim you're struggling to pay after the service when the bill arrives. I was surprised how #3 worked for my in-laws for various services over the years. They didn't threaten to declare BK or anything like that. They just said it was hard to pay, and the providers immediately knocked off most of the bill, apparently settling for what they could get from Medicare. I always negotiated beforehand, but the odd thing I found is I could get a better deal having no insurance than bad insurance. I know this from having various plans over the years.

The whole market, such as it is, is messed up because most consumers and providers have no reason to know or care what the prices are. People think they'd like to turn over handling the buying and negotiating to insurance companies because it's the last thing they want to think about when they're sick. Unfortunately it doesn't work to hand over 20% of your expenses to a company and pay no attention. They end up frustrated.

Maybe it shouldn't have been surprising we paid roughly the same for our kids' delivery as our grandparents. No matter how you try to slice it, you have to pay rent plus equipment plus the expertise of someone who studied a complex subject for many years; and it works out to about the same.

If u pay cash for hospital today, it’s hard to believe the bill would be similar to as hospital bill back then, Sven adjusted for depreciation if the dollar

"my parents had major medical health insurance for the family"
My grandparents talked about paying the hospital for delivering my parents. Adjusted for CPI, the amount was similar to the cost of delivering a baby without complications today. It was slightly less, but they had much less ability to deal with complications then, so we get a better deal today. What struck me was their attitude. They didn't earn that much money. They thought nothing of spending close to a month's pay on something critically important the requires a lot of expertise. Now so many people feel like they have a right to those services. The feeling I got from talking to my grandparents was not that they were bragging in any way. WWII was bad. Spending three weeks pay on good experts to deliver a baby was a blessing. As you said, "Entitlement was not the order of the day."

No doubt life around large numbers of other people are challenging, particularly when the members are not rational thinkers. Objectivism provides a framework to make it a LOT EASIER for people to live in close proximity cooperatively.

I can remember growing up when my parents had major medical health insurance for the family, pcp doctors’ offices were located down the street in a section of their residences, and a lot of hospitals were run by catholic or other religious sects. Human benevolence helped out in real emergencies, and people did not take advantage of that.

Entitlement was not the order of the day, and living in a neighborhood was a good thing

I am thinking that perhaps one of the problems now is there are too many people living too close to each other, and their philosophy isn’t based on reason.

term2: "Better to put some more effort into staying healthy until 65."

Reiterating what I said: "people are unwilling to have the gov’t just pay a minimal cost to get them off the street and back to their residence...we’re going to get roped into back-door socialism of paying for their expenses "

This whole tax thing reminds me of the phrase "everybody pays taxes" and how this is a bastardization on the word pay -- we do not pay taxes. Taxes are taken -- they are confiscated. A withholding is a taking. But that is for our own good, don't you know -- so we don't have to write the periodic check to the State. When you write a check, at least when I do, I think about the Payee -- and what I am getting in return for my payment. When taxes turned into a withholding, it is now out of sight, out of mind. A nice bit of psychological engineering there. In any case, I just sealed up the confiscation envelope and will post it today ... then pour a glass (or two) of something to wash away the mental pain of knowing that the vast majority of that which has been confiscated will be squandered into sundry pestholes.

I agree -- the layers of instructions are vast -- and although the math itself is not complicated, there is just a considerable quantity of it... lots of rope on which to strangle oneself. I mail in my payment today - consistently keeping the check under the penalty limit.

I also like the fill in PDF form ... and the fact that the form has half the fields and the 12k standard deduction improved my life considerably. Plus no more AMT nonsense.

Yup.

So the looters know where the assets are and they can change the law to loot as much as possible.

You don't pay the estate tax anymore, but ... you do still need to fill out the form.

There was also the really weird "logic" in declaring health insurance would be cheaper and at the same time add a tax to medical devices. I still can't wrap my brain around that one!

Good point! I'll have to remember that!

Screw the NSA. I don't cheat on my taxes but I have been falsely accused of mailing late when I used to mail one day short of the15th (before my brother advised 10 days was better). That's why I also pay exrtra to have those two extortion mailings certified. .

Insert 'health' after group! OOps!

In my youth (23 - 30 ), I worked for a very large insurance group. I asked my boss (2nd from the top Executive) why we continued to write group insurance when it always operated at a loss. His response was, 'in order to sell the life insurance that goes with it...there's the profit margin'. He was an Actuary so I didn't doubt a word he said!

None of us SHOULD be required to get health insurance. If its a good deal, then get it. Something that costs $800 a month for $5000 deductible and major copays isnt that great. Better to put some more effort into staying healthy until 65. Then you can milk the medicare system.

I agree. I would rather that the system was intensely complicated so people would see it for what it is.

hmm, I wonder if the NSA is listening.....

I think its perfectly reasonable to work only hard enough to get whatever money I need before I die, and leave ZERO for the government to get. Hard to get this exact, so I will err on the side of having more, but not enough to be taxed (again)

Me dino done wid me taxes a week ago.. Waiting for Friday, Aprril 5, to go to the post office.
My smarter about such stuff brother (he's an eccentric who;graduated magna cum laude at the University of Alabama and is a retired Lockheed Martin engineer who had something to do with the Stealth Fighter) has advised it is best to do taxes the old-fashioned way on paper and to mail the fed and state extortions 10 days before April 15, That, he says, increases my odds to dodge an audit due to revenue collectors being extremely busy. Been following that advice for 10 years without any problems. Knock on wood.

Strangely, even though the individual mandate was nullified by executive order, the law requiring you to have "adequate" insurance is still in effect. I get a 1095 from my military retirement office to show I have Tricare (even though I'm now on Medicare, and Tricare is just a supplement).

On the bright side, for me at least, doubling the standard deduction swung me from tax payment to refund on federal tax. I get a big refund on my state tax, because both my military retirement and my IRA have minimums, even though Oklahoma does not tax Social Security, and waives 75% of military retirement. Still, I'd rather give an interest free loan to the state than the feds.