11

Trump and Ojectivism

Posted by Tavolino 5 years, 8 months ago to Government
670 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

Trump and Objectivism

I’m puzzled by the formal Objectivist movement (ARI, TOS) and their complete disdain for President Trump. From the beginning they have never missed a chance not only to distance themselves, but also follow with a pompous negative certainty, without having the necessary relevant facts. Ironic, considering our foundations are based on proper identification (metaphysics) and validation (epistemology) before passing judgment or taking action (ethics). While I agree principles should never be compromised, context and perspective need to be objectively evaluated and applied, rather than a blind intrinsic repetition. Regarding Trump, there some broad hierarchal recognitions that I believe are very consonant with our philosophy.

Our fundamental basis is metaphysics, which is the proper identification of the nature of something. More than any past politician, however brash, Trump calls it like he sees it within his known knowledge. Be it the emotional motivations of political correctness, the lies of the “fake news,” the imbedded corruption, the recognition of the good and bad on the world stage (Israel, China, North Korea, Iran), the parasitical nations that feed off our teat, etc., etc.. The transparency of his thoughts have been unmatched and not hidden behind political speak, spins, alternate agendas, backroom deals or deceit. It is what it is.

As Dr. Jerome Huyler noted, “Trump has the sense of life of an individualist. His common sense - born of decades of experience as a businessman and dealing with politicians - tells him that taxes and heavy-handed regulations destroy economies. It is true, as Rand said that common sense is the child's method of thinking. But it is born of empirical experience,” the basis of knowledge acquisition.

His “America First” mantra should be championed by us. Rand had always said America will never regain its greatness until it changes its altruist morality. America First is just that. It’s not some blind German nationalism, but an attitude that America’s interests need to be selfishly upheld. This is a necessary fundamental to our ethics. He has attempted to keep open discussions with all, based around trade and fair exchange. Rand had said, “The trader and the warrior have been fundamental antagonist throughout history.” His movement away from aggressive wars, political globalism and multi-lateral agreements keep our own self-interests as paramount. It’s the application of the trader principle.

Lastly, his counter-punch mindset and approach is completely in line with our moral rightness of retaliation. He may prod or poke, but does not pull the proverbial trigger until he’s attacked, either with words or actions.

There is a dire threat that’s facing our country today with the abuses and power of the ingrained bureaucracy utilized for political purposes. It's imperative that all Americans unite, led by the voices of reason to identify and expose this fundamental threat to freedom. It's not about the false alternative of Trump or never Trump, it's about the American system and the fundamental role, purpose and responsibilities of government, regardless ones political persuasion.

As Objectivists, we need to continually apply our principles in the real world of what is, slowly moving it to where it should be. We need to descend from the “ivory tower” to the first floor of reality. Trump may not be able to articulate the principles, but are not what’s mentioned above consistent with our most basic and fundamental beliefs as Objectivists?






All Comments


Previous comments...   You are currently on page 26.
  • Posted by PeterSmith 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    None of the problem lies with the two party system.
    The problem is a complete lack of understanding of political theory, leaving us with no viable options to vote for.
    Not to mention an altruist culture that rejects Objectivist values thanks to two thousand years of Christian damage.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Based on what he has done since he came to office. The other democratic candidates as well as crooked hillary are far more collectivist in their actions. Trump is not perfectly consistent, but we get less of the march of collectivism with him than with the others. One could argue that he hasnt rolled back much collectivism, but he hasnt fostered it like Obama did
    Reply | Permalink  
  • -4
    Posted by PeterSmith 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's almost like you read my post, blanked it out and went back to NPC talking points.

    Try again.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • -3
    Posted by PeterSmith 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't think you do get it and you're responding with mindless NPC talking points. Nothing I've posted is Trump TDS. Just pretty basic facts that shouldn't even be all that controversial...
    Reply | Permalink  
  • -2
    Posted by PeterSmith 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    None of these things have happened.
    Point by point:
    1. Tax cuts - are not real because government spending has exploded. This means that the gov will still be collecting this money either through printing or borrowing. Without a cut in government spending first, you can't have tax cuts.

    2. Constitutional judges - are not a thing. No one on the SC understands anything about the constitution today, nor are there any such candidates. Kavanaugh is a massive leftist responsible for implementing unconstitutional spying programs. Gorsuch is not as bad, but still nothing indicates he is a "constitutional judge."

    3. Rollback of regulations - nothing has been rolled back. There has not been a single bill deregulating anything. I think there's confusion between some of Trumps appointees fiddling around the margins and "deregulation."

    4. Repeal of Obamacare - Trump was not able to repeal Obamacare. No such bill has been passed. The fact that Obamacare might a death anyway, just because the checks and balances the Founders first put in place are still somewhat functional, is not something Trump gets any credit for.

    5 Withdraw from climate change accord - so? It's not like he's passed any bills removing any green bureaucracy's or anything. This is more fiddling around the margins.

    And then there's the massive INCREASE in regulations from the Trump administration, in areas of immigration, trade and the assault on tech companies.

    I think I said it another thread but when it comes to Trump so many people are just in fantasy lala land, instead of observing what is ACTUALLY going on.
    You're too invested in Trump, which is generally a sign of weak/non-existent principles or ideas, or ability to think for yourself.
    So Trump IS a complete collectivist.
    Objectivists should be opposed to this appalling, leftist administration.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I understand. A week before the election I was talking to a developer in Panama, inquiring about a home there...
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by wrcohen 5 years, 8 months ago
    When Ron Paul took the oath of office at the time of his first election to the Congress in the seventies, he did what each of us would have done but vanishingly few lawmakers do, he wondered just what he would have to do in order to keep the oath he had just taken! Doctor Paul studied the history and learned that the founders had granted only a limited number of powers to the Congress, so he decided to identify the power being sought in new bills before him, and if that power was not among the enumerated powers he would vote NO, despite his party leaderships wishes. In his first eleven of twelve terms in the Congress he cast the sole NO vote over three hundred times. That inspired college men in two colleges who each founded an organization: http://www.studentsforliberty.org. Since their creation in 2008 they have grown exponentially to being on over 2000 campuses and hundreds of thousands of student activists! Still growing and reading von Mises, Rand, Rothbard etc.
    It is conceivable that in a few years they will be on every campus, recruiting entering freshman, and numbering in the tens of millions!
    Perhaps not Objectivists but they are affiliated with the Atlas Society so they are encouraged to read Rand. They are affiliated with virtually every pro free market organization. I have met them, they are intelligent, value liberty, are motivated to grow the movement, know they are part of a growing organization which is not top down but driven by the members. I had wished this would happen when Objectivists got started but never organized and not active in the colleges as these groups are.
    Enables me to sleep better at night!
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think on the average, we need to balance our exports of certain things with imports of other things. Trade is a good thing in that it allows highest efficiency. In the case of China, I suspect we should decrease our purchases from them, since they want to grow richer and then will use those riches to try and take over other lands and people, and perhaps even the USA. We bought from china because our own labor is too expensive . That isnt going to change unless we radically automate. Better to switch mfg to other countries where labor is cheaper- maybe vietnam, cambodia, indonesia, etc.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by chad 5 years, 8 months ago
    There is no such thing as 'the lesser of two evils'. To choose one that is less evil is to still acknowledge and giver power to evil.
    Trump was interviewed by Leslie Stahl of 60 minutes after winning the election and before being sworn in. He was asked about some of the promises he had made in his campaign speeches: Would he get rid of the ACA (Obamacare)? Reply; No, there were some good parts in it worth keeping at the most he might replace it (rename it and give the people the same thing). Would he build a wall across the entire southern border? Reply; No, a fence would probably be good enough in some locations. Would he prosecute the Clintons? Reply; No, they were really good people after all.
    It is often pointed out that he is not a professional politician and therefore a straight talker. He is a self serving politician who will say what he thinks people want to hear so they vote for him. He is no less a socialist (but pretends not to be) than Barrack Obama was concerned with stopping the war on terrorism, which he promised he would do and never did. There is no compromise to be made with Objectivist ideals that will not lead to socialism and destroy individuals. Moving a little to the 'right' will not awaken the majority of people, it will only entertain them while they are being deceived and destroyed. If Trump is 'playing 3D chess' as some claim it is being played against those he deceived.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    China has to say that; however, it does not have to be true to be said.

    We need to move some manufacturing back to the US. It is not far from cost parity in many cases, and we are on an unsustainable trajectory.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think China says that the prospect of dealing with tariffs is small potatoes compared with the effect of Trump's trade demands on "Make China Great Again" that President Xi has launched on.

    If one looks at the history of china, one sees a very warlike society for thousands of years that has taken over territory after territory whenever it gets the slightest bit powerful. They ARE the enemy, and we need to stop trading with them
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    His tariffs are hurting China, no doubt. They have unsettled the present leadership, and growth is lower than the last 30 years.

    China is the enemy. Russia lacks any real economic power, and ISIS is a nagging mosquito. China is waging war with the US right now. We just don't recognize it.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agree! Arguing about him here is one thing. Throwing him under the bus to the lemmings in the world is self-defeating. He is better than all the alternatives in a while. MUCH better than G.W. Much better then O-commie.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think we have to choose the best of the ones that can actually win. In case all the choices are very bad, then its time perhaps to move out of the country, or just not vote and perhaps go galt
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by tdechaine 5 years, 8 months ago
    Just to address the claim that Objectivists’ disdain for Trump is unfounded, note the following.

    Yes, Trump calls it like he sees it; but without objectivity, reason or truth.
    He is a complete pragmatist without principles (not simply failing to “articulate the principles”. He is an altruist, not an individualist with self-esteem and who defends individual rights. In summary, he is not a moral man.

    Politically he is mixed but mostly wrong.
    Yes, he has reduced some regulations, some taxes (but certainly not for all), etc.
    Yes, he nominated 2 conservatives to the Supreme Court; but that is not necessarily good from an Obj. perspective.

    His foreign policy is badly mixed.
    Yes, he is pro-Israel, reduced aid to foreign countries, etc.
    But his misguided dealings with foreign leaders as in N. Korea and China are pathetic. It is very immoral to talk of their leaders as great persons who care for their people.
    His trade policies are equally pathetic. Tariffs are never a good idea; a trade deficit is not overall bad for our economy but retaliatory tariffs imposed on other countries are.
    There is no such thing as “fair” trade.

    Being a Nationalist is racist and altruistic. Protecting America’s interests is not the same as acting inappropriately against other countries in order to achieve our ends. When our country has bad policies that hurt our economy, patriotism becomes blind.

    He has never proposed rational immigration reform (regardless of whether or not Congress would have accepted it). Whether or not he is a true racist himself, his irrational rhetoric suggests racism against many immigrants.

    Given all that, can he possibly be better than a Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren?
    That’s a tough question; but it is irrelevant in this context. Objectivists criticize Trump for who he is and what he says/does, not for how he stacks up to other statists.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I stopped reading this post after "...Trump is a complete collectivist." Am I correct to assume the rest was a mess?

    While we're at it...Obama drew everybody together, across racial barriers. Or...Bill Clinton remained true to his wife. George W could fly when he flapped his arms fast enough. Let's really get off in the weeds here...
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Dobrien 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    +1 Russpilot. This is one of many benefits of freedom of speech. You can separate the wheat from the chaff. Sort the valuable from the worthless. Any love for Hussein is misguided at best and it totally shows a dearth of critical thinking.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by TheRogue1000 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I, too, did not vote for Trump...or anyone else in line for the Presidency in 2016. I simply did not know much about him other than his ability to make deals and money.

    However, after two years of "promises kept" and real results, I kind of wish we could have an additional 8 years of him. His statistics are simply marvelous and I seriously doubt there is anyone like him to follow.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Dobrien 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    All good points. The President could do much more if he had cooperation. No comparison needed. A true Patriot vs an Evil corrupt hag.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ CBJ 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Re: "Trump is a complete collectivist"
    1. Tax cuts
    2. Constitutionalist judges
    3. Rollback of regulations
    4. Repeal of Obamacare opt-out "tax"
    5. Withdraw from "climate change accord"
    Yep, "complete collectivist" for sure!
    (For further details, compare to Hillary.)
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Russpilot 5 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Jesus, we get it... you are a Trump hater and your TDS is showing through. All of your posts have the same bias. Trumps achievements in his first 8 months in office overshadowed the whole of the 8 years previous and it grates on your poor little heart.
    After that all I hear (read) sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher.
    Reply | Permalink  

  • Comment hidden. Undo