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  • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I totally agree. Doesn't that mean you are discriminating against a person who hates something you don't like? That being a person who hated someone because of race or sexuality. My point being, everyone should be able to make their own choice on who they associate with for what every reason they choose without government restrictions. We should just not be able to take violent actions that interfere with anyone's life, liberty or pursuit of happiness..
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The Civil Rights immediately lead to quotas, within a few short years. more of those intended consequences
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Again I ask

    Explain how it is biologically normal or essential?

    Homosexuality is indefinable not natural despite how much you'd like it to be (Parts don't line up for any conceivable biological purpose, remember?)

    Also, NEWSFLASH: Neither society nor I have to like or even approve of anything you or I do. This is the homosexual agenda: to force acceptance of their unnatural deviation. You make that point perfectly clear in your words.

    Explain how homosexuality has a biological purpose or is essential to the propagation of the species?
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  • -2
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, homosexuality *is* both normal and natural. The scientific evidence for biological and genetic origins is incredibly strong. Also, you're failing to recognize the distinction between equal rights under the law and equal treatment in society. Regardless of whether the law SAYS they're equal (and civil unions are not equal to marriage, by the way), the fact remains that society treats the LGBT community like they're not equal, but rather second class citizens. Therefore, legal protections are necessary.
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  • -1
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't support quotas in business. They just tend to do more harm than good. The sort of protection I support is just the same as those protections enumerated for other groups in the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Quotas are not part of that. As for the argument about extending tolerance to hate groups, I would say no, that's not necessary, as that would turn the whole concept of tolerance on its head. Remember, every positive carries a negative. If you push any issue hard enough and deep enough, it breaks through to its counter side. Even something as beautiful as love can be twisted into an unhealthy obsession if taken to an extreme. As Aristotle says, "The ideal lies at the mean between excess and deficiency."
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There is no limitation placed on the homosexual community in anyway. Anything normal couples have in society can be achieved by homosexual couples by way of legal means. This includes civil unions, transfer of wealth apron death, and power of attorney. What sought by the homosexual agenda is to be considered normal and or natural. Its not either of those things.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "You want laws that exceed those any other group has."
    ---
    No, I just want the same laws that already protect race, religion, and sex. These are already protected classes under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, so it's not logical to say that the LGBT community wants protection above and beyond what other groups have when we're just asking for the same protection that is spelled out for other groups in the Civil Rights Act. The LGBT community was not included in the Civil Rights Act, and that needs to be corrected.

    Also, the human genome is not nearly as well understood as you seem to think. There are still many, many aspects that are totally unknown.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think you're taking the statement "We're all the same inside" a bit too literally. It doesn't mean there are no differences between people, because obviously that isn't true. Rather, it simply means that everyone is human, and everybody deserves a basic level of dignity and respect. As it says in the Declaration of Independence, "All men are created equal."
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  • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "No, they don't face disproportionate *persecution*."
    ---
    Yes they do. Sticking your head in the sand and denying reality won't change the facts.
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  • -2
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The First Amendment actually only protects religious belief from being prohibited by the government. It does not protect religious belief from discrimination from non-government entities, such as a private business. The Constitution is directed at the government, not the people. That's why religious belief needed to be specifically mentioned in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, because that *is* directed at the people.

    Prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, private businesses could have legally discriminated against you for your religious beliefs all they wanted. The First Amendment provides no protection against that.
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  • -1
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, religious belief is a protected class under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and I fully support that protection. You are also correct that there is no legal protection for the LGBT community (at least on a national level; several cities and some states have protection). However, the fact that the LGBT community doesn't have nationwide legal protection does not mean that they don't NEED protection.

    If I say that someone needs legal protection, pointing out that they don't already have it doesn't refute my argument.
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  • -1
    Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    They are applicable. The problem is that members of the LGBT community are not being treated equally in society.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Avoid these question like you did the biological one.

    How are homosexuals not male or female like everyone else?

    How are the existing rights for all human beings not applicable to homosexuals?

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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The events of the Soviet Union, Red China, Cuba, Viet Nam, etcetera ad nauseaum were very real.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights."
    This is NOT about protecting groups-this is specific to individuals' rights. Please read the first part of the clause....PROHIBITS the making of a law respecting an establishment of religion
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  • -1
    Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would go further than that Houston Pastor:

    Freedom means the right to discriminate against anyone, for any reason whatsoever.
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  • -1
    Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You were doing good til you said, "Once it was Italians, Jews, Blacks, now gays."

    Sorry, "gays" doesn't fit.
    Once upon a time, sheepherders were persecuted. Today, tobacco smokers are even more persecuted.

    I'm sorry, but Maph has burned out my giveashit.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You're telling me that a transexual is not different from a homosexual? That's like saying a male heterosexual is no different from a female heterosexual... if we accept your premise that they aren't simply males/females with deviant appetites and/or mental/emotional disorders.
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  • Posted by Lucky 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    'When a group is being specifically targeted for persecution, then they need to be specifically targeted for protection, regardless of what attribute the persecution is based on.'

    This is an interesting comment and should not have been voted down.
    However, I disagree with it on two grounds:

    1. I suggest that the correct word here is not persecution but discrimination. Once this is illegal an Italian restaurant cannot advertise for Italian staff. It leads to absurdity and bullying. Should it be ok or should it be illegal to employ anyone but Italians? The quick answer is that there is already a tax (a fine) on employers who do that- it is the penalty they pay for not employing the best person. The market does that better than government. Now, you will recall some time ago on here there was report of a study on discrimination in employment - it exists, the biggest offenders were government and regulated industry. There, employment criteria give preference to being likeable, fitting in, members of the club, and so on. Actual performance is less important than a pleasant environment with like minded fellows. There is no market mechanism to fine the guilty. Ok, here, short of abolishing government and regulated industry, there should be regulations to ensure the best person gets the job. (The technical term is market failure). Libertarians would disagree with me here. I think you will find there are such already in place, they do not work very well. Often there are quotas to make it seem to be 'fair'. Any quota works in favor of some and against others.
    2. Racial etc. persecution does exist, the amount of it today in your and my country I'd guess to be negligible. But what is persecution? Violence is already illegal. Gangs of toughs beat up that group, businesses are confiscated, they are monitored more closely for infringement of laws.
    The successful Chinese businessman is 'invited' to play a game of golf with the general or the mayor. They voluntarily agree to bet on the game, big. For 'health' he had better lose. This does not happen here, but in a nation not far away. Ethnic small businesses are targeted to pay protection money -often by gangs of the same ethnicity. All this should be, and already is, illegal.
    When there is a group being specifically persecuted in this way, no special law is needed to stop it. Once it was Italians, Jews, Blacks, now gays. The law needed should not be discriminatory- for or against, I agree that there are often enforcement problems, the local police could then be given guidance on how to allocate resources. Attempts to inflict on police recruitment the usual meaningless personality tests favor only the con-artists, selection by quota degrades overall performance.

    In summary of my long boring post- bad stuff exists. Big government actions usually make things worse.

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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "religious people" are as much a "community" as the alleged LGBT "community".

    Reread the 1st Amendment.
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